BG3 Honour Mode: strategy & tactics (many spoilers)

Antimatter

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
1,499
Are you going for that special achievement (where you need to have every class in one character)?

I'm unsure how I feel regarding barrels in this game. It was fun in D:OS 2, no question. But here, I still thought it was just something "alien" and brought from another game. It's the only aspect (along with yeeeting) of the combat design I'm not a fan of.

Oh yeah about extra companions. I think Halsin was added just for the thirsty crowd. And Minthara is a shame, because they didn't care to add proper content for her in later Acts. Both she and Halsin are almost half-baked after Act 1.
 

Black Elk

Habitué
Messages
346
Yeah, "Jack of All Trades" (master of none), except that I already have the achievement from back in January, and also, it's completely absurd! lol

The exact wording is "Multi-class into every class in one playthrough without asking Withers to change your character" which seems alright on it's face, until you realize that this achievement can be unlocked with any companion character, not just the protagonist. So in my case I was planning out how to do the achievement by first plotting the experiment with Minsc (you know to see which skills or proficiencies would make sense for a sequence order), but then Steam just up gave me the achievement for doing that with Minsc in Act III, instead of playing out the whole campaign from Act I without using Withers. Now I have this achievement that I feel was not particularly well earned, so I wanted to do it the legit way, since the Red Queen suggested it the other day, but's hard to motivate.

Jack of All Trades is just this really clear example of a potentially cool idea, that gets lost in translation because it's been so poorly applied.

Having achievements for Multiclassing without respecs at Withers is a cool idea.

Where it falls apart is the specific 'challenge' of only 1 lvl in all 12 classes for a single character. There is no compositional variety there when choosing classes, cause you have to take all of them, and to me that's not a character concept that feels real.

It's not a D&D thing that I think anyone would ever do, so it feels like a meta-character concept purely to achieve the achievement. Similar to the BG3 Party Compositions (w/o repetition) having more actual variety with a party of 5 or a party of 6 (even with the same 10 characters) compared to 4, Jack of All Trades is just like that.

So for example if the challenge read something like "Multiclass into 4 classes, without asking Withers to change your character" and progressing each Class (even split) before taking the next level. Or maybe "Multiclass into 6 classes... out of 12" that gives many options for an approach, but when it's all 12 Classes, that Multi-Class Character just ends up being super ridiculous. Like the vanilla hotbar can't even accommodate what's going on there.

It wouldn't be as frustrating if there were other Multi-Class achievements in BG3 besides just the one, but that's all they gave us. Also I just feel like having the Achievements tracked by the platform (in this case Steam) rather than in-game is a miss. It makes the achievements feel very detached, like they exist only for the Player rather than the Player Character, if that makes sense. To me a sensible series of achievements might have been something like "complete the game as Class X", with 12 separate achievements there (one for each Class). So beating the game as a Sorcerer might give the "Sorcerer's Achievement" whereas doing it as a Fighter or a Druid you get a different achievement. Then they could do the same for Multi-Class combos with even splits. So you might have a basic Multi-Class achievement for taking 6 levels in 2 classes. Or a Triple-Class or Quad Class achievement for doing the same sort of thing. That would make sense because the Characters can still be unique that way. There are choices to make about the sequence or things like subclass or spells/abilities chosen at say lvl 2 or lvl 3 in a given Class, but all those pancake down to just the one goofy character archetype when it's the full dirty dozen.

I have a similar attitude towards the exploding Barrels. For every single combat encounter in this game there is a way to barrelmancy your way through that encounter. I mean from the very first battle on the Bridge of the Nautiloid, and then at each step along the way, there's always a boom barrel somewhere right? I don't like guns and gunpowder in my High fantasy D&D setting.

I'm not so hardcore that I can't tolerate the game going a little bit in that direction when we're dealing specifically with the Deep Gnomes towards the end of the campaign, but it's just so front loaded. I mean you can buy something like 2 or 3 smoke powder hand grenades per day from Quartermaster Talli at the Last Light. They cost about as much as a lowly healing potion, and explode with AoE Force damage across a huge radius. Also they weigh a lot less than barrels. You can chuck like 2 or 3 hand grenades per turn with a Martial character. It's harder to get excited about a Magic Missile or a spell like Shatter or Fireball when any character can just chuck a smoke powder grenade for like 20 dmg + a stunning effect for so cheap. Also like if you give the player a way to edgepan a firebolt in order to ignite the explosive barrels that are all prepositioned right at the enemies toes, what do we expect to happen? Or course that's what the player is going to do. It's frustrating on the Nautiloid, because for some reason that first overturned illithid barrel has a very finnicky hitbox. Like that firebolt will dud more than half the time, if I don't move first before firing (Even though it would appear to be in the line of sight.) But those are the only times that barrel isn't exploding as the literal first thing that happens in the literal first big battle of the game lol.

For my part, I just don't really need Cannons or Arquebuses or anything like that in the Forgotten Realms. I mean, I know it can work, depending on how much one wants to lean into the "D&D, but with Pirates!" angle, which is surely a mainstay (see Pillars II for a pretty decent take on how that sort of setting can be set up) but like in standard FR? I don't know.

I thought a potentially cool riff on a BG3 idea for higher yields might have been to have an Artificer Class. An Artificer who, when included as part of the team, might allow us to interact with all these random exploding barrels and such.

You know like as if there was some special reactive agent that had been missing from the equation. The whole Deep Gnome/Wulbren plotline would have been awesome for an Artificer, because then when you did that run, all those barrels might do things they wouldn't normally do. You know so like say in the vanilla game with the standard fantasy classes, then the barrels might behave the way they do when they are merely broken/spilled over - creating those surfaces that do light damage. But if you're playing as an Artificer then the barrels can explode and do the bigger damage - cause you're an Artificer! lol

But yeah, I feel ya. It's just one of those things that sorta pancakes the gameplay and allows the player to blow past stuff with ease if they elect to do so.

Yeeting I don't mind so much when it's attached to spell or special weapon attack. Like Eldritch Blast with the repelling blast, or Thunderwave, Thorn Whip or the Pushing Battle Maneuver. I don't think we should be able to push enemies into Chasms with a bonus action Shove though. I mean sure, keep that one as a dialogue choice when the Duergar dude asks us why we're coasting on a stolen raft, but for the standard nuts and bolts it just kinda diminishes the other more class specific attacks that might make it feel special. It's hard to go from that position to like picking up an enemy over my head and literally tossing them off a cliff. For some of this stuff, I can avoid the temptation by pretending. For example I've yet to achieve that achievement where you kill an enemy by throwing another enemy at them, cause I just never do that move. But it's hard to pass over the big kaboom boom barrels in some of these fights, where they're so obviously meant to be ignited as the first move. Failing at initiative or failing to edgepan a firebolt and explode multiple enemies to open, can feel like rolling a crit fail 1. It's like the Trap with Gimblebock, or the rolling Stone Ball before we reach the Goblin camp. It's hard not to do it every single time. Durge Groundhogging the whole show there.

Again it's like a problem of frontloading the cool stuff, at the expense of any sense of progression over time. I like a progressive campaign where this stuff has room to crescendo, but if you give it to me in the Prologue or the first Act of the game, it ends up meh. Same deal with camp clothing and mods and just everything where they give you all the things up front heheh. I don't know though, I feel like a BG3 broken record on some of this stuff. Like we went through all those paces in EA I felt, but some stuff just didn't make the grade for me. Not because it wasn't fun to blow up the Brain when sweating the honours, but just all over the place from the very start, it's a bit much I think.
 
Last edited:

Black Elk

Habitué
Messages
346
Still charging ahead with Alfira in Mask black for the Jack of All Trades...

Took a hot minute to catch back up again, but this time we were ready for Dror Ragzlin. Hit the short fuse like there was no tomorrow and made off with Lump's circlet lol

I ended up giving Alfira Phalar Aluve when we ventured down to the Selunite Outpost in the Underdark. Took a slightly different route this time so I could grab the Club of Hill Giant Strength sooner rather than later. Tried to eek out every advantage and push the stats via itemization, since there are no feats to be had for my main. So far so good! There was some tension towards the end of Act I, as Shadowheart and Lae'zel were both angling for Romance. We played it coy for a while, but eventually Lae'zel made her move. I'll take it as a good sign, since usually my campaigns seems to go better with Bae'zel.

Wasn't sure what I'd be wearing for the long haul, or what would happen when we finally reached the Last Light, but the way it works Alfira launches into her usual dialogue after rescuing the Tiefs. Nabbed the Potent Robes for our Eldritch blasts completing the quest as usual. I had Alfira grab the Eldritch Blast cantrip as well via Magical Secrets, so lots of blasting. I was a little confused about the Spellslot progression with this many Classes at once, and not entirely sure if the sequence of Multi-classes makes a difference for that. I took Warlock at lvl 4, then Druid at lvl 5, since it seemed thematic (rescuing the Emerald Grove and such) but this didn't unlock the 3rd level Spellslots like I'd thought it would. I'm wondering if I'd delayed taking Warlock if we'd have gotten our lvl 3 spellslots sooner? Then I took a couple martial classes, first Fighter, then Ranger. When I took a class in Bard at lvl 8, I finally managed to unlock the lvl 3 spellslots so I could write the spells as a Wizard. I figured if I took all the full caster classes first in sequence that we'd be right on the level curve, similar to playing as a S'wizard, since I took the multi into War Cleric of Tiamat at lvl 2, then Wizard at lvl 3, and it gave me the second level spellslot as normal there. Maybe the last class taken somehow determines the spellslot level progression for the next lvl up?

Not sure for that if it would have been better to save one level as a full caster for the end, or if I'll now progress as a half caster or quarter caster or whatever. Could be that I'll just max out at lvl 3 Spells for the duration under this scheme.

I can prepare 4 spells from the list right now as a Wizard using the Circlet of INT 17, so currently using Shield, Haste, Animate Dead, and Melf's Acid Arrow - the last just for flavor, since I'm an Acid Dragon this time (Black/Copper). Chromatic Orb is actually better for Acid Damage I think, and they both have the minor AoE so sorta reduntant. Chromatic Orb uses CHA and can be upcasted, Acid Arrow uses INT since it's from the wizard list. I had planned to ditch it for something more AoE, Buff or Summon rather than direct dmg, although now not sure where we'll cap out. Might still get the lvl 4 spells by the end. I figured Haste and Animate Dead would probably be the most useful overall, since I'm basically in a support role for the rest of the crew.

We brought Wyll along for the ride this time for a bit. Gave him the Knife of the Undermountain, so he could dual wield with the Sussur Sickle using his Pact. Mainly just so that when he says "by Sickle and Sword!" for his bark that it would make more sense hehe. I probably should have kept the sword for myself, but I wanted to rep a scimitar for style points and less clipping.

We saved Halsin and set him up in black with some of the kit we weren't using. But then immediately benched him because his Wildshape seemed to be borked. Might be from one of the mods, not sure there. I'm hoping Jaheira's will be normal so she can be slot in for the last spot. Gale is in the mix, mainly for the knock Spell, but we ditched him after rescuing Minthara, predictably lol. Karlach has been doing a lot of heavy lifting as well with that returning Pike. Always seems to be the most reliable dmg for just about any attack, especially with the Brand the Weak amulet, and just for the movement bonus, so she'll probably be on the crew for the long haul. That's basically the team at the moment, with Alfira in the lockbusting role for jail breaks.

Alfira and Lakrissa had some nice banter going on when we got back to the Inn.

20241016214737_1.jpg
20241014194259_1.jpg
20241014195325_1.jpg
20241017211003_1.jpg
20241017195403_1.jpg
20241019000540_1.jpg
20241019201626_1.jpg
20241019001651_1.jpg
20241019002810_1.jpg
20241019000345_1.jpg


Hopefully she'll get some more barks eventually or maybe some approval/disapproval as the Mod becomes more fleshed out over time, but for now it's pretty entertaining. Least she will occasionally be inspired when we do bard stuff. I took my performance proficiency in the Lyre, so we could jam hehe.

You can see the hotbar gets pretty loaded for this Jack of All Trades thing, mostly with Cantrips we won't be casting very often, but we've definitely got the versatility in the bag. About to take on Ketheric! Fingers crossed lol

ps. Hmmmm same deal with Jaheira on the Wildshape thing... She's stuck with just the basic forms I guess, no Panther or Owlbear. Might be the Beasts mod that busted it, or one of the other mods. Not sure, it's hard to tell.

20241019233042_1.jpg

20241020020202_1.jpg


Had to run her as a Circle of the Land Druid so it wouldn't feel like such a nerf. Somehow Jaheira is also stuck in a dialogue loop so she can't be dismissed. I guess just really wanted to come along lol. We ditched Karlach on account of that snafu. Hopefully it will all sort itself out once Ketheric is dead. Guess we'll find out soon enough hehe
 
Last edited:

Black Elk

Habitué
Messages
346
Success! Alfira nailed him with the Hellish rebuke!

Too apt hehe

20241020020239_1.jpg
20241020022736_1.jpg
20241020024234_1.jpg
20241020024521_1.jpg
20241020024659_1.jpg
20241020033937_1.jpg


Things almost took a turn when the Necromites started spawning like crazy, but we got off a couple Acid Orbs and some smites to seal the deal. Didn't run into any issues with the party of 6. So far everything has been smooth sailing except for the wildshape stuff with the Druids. Could be worse I suppose. I prefer Jaheira as more of a caster/summons jockey anyways, so we'll probably just keep with the lighting calls. Or maybe I respec her into a lvl 2 Druid/lvl 10 Fighter or something along those lines. Least we're over the hump though. Now we just gotta motivate through the home stretch
 
Last edited:

Black Elk

Habitué
Messages
346
I was hoping the addition of Mods would somehow solve my pacing issues in Act III, but even with the expanded crew I still seem to take my foot off the gas lol.

Same as usual, like right after the Coronation interlude at Wyrm's Rock and arriving in the City for the first time via the Basilisk Gate. I think they should have waylaid us at that first area transition from Wyrm's Rock and then dumped us at the Baldur's Gate (gate) instead of the Basilisk Gate - like way on the other side of the city, with the first main objective simply to reach the Elfsong Tavern. I just flew over there to unlock the waypoint and to see how it felt going backwards.

Entering the City from that side, the first thing we spot on the lefthand side is the Facemaker's Boutique (a merchant with cooler clothing options and a hook into the Orin/Assassination plotline) and then the second building on the righthand side is Jaheira's house!

Also, from the Basilisk Gate position (default) we are already at the highest elevation for the area map, so the impression I get is descending down into to the city which can be slightly vertigo inducing. I think climbing up towards a vista or down by the bay from more of a mid-elevation entrance would have given a better first impression. Less overwhelming initially and more focused I think, with the feet to the street, instead of wandering. If starting at Baldur's Gate you'd basically get a left/right 50/50 sort choice at that first branch path. Left leads towards the Blushing Mermaid, Right towards the Docks and the Foundry. Both have potential combat encounters to help break things up, either for the Hag plotline or rescuing Volo. When we come to it at more of a mid elevation the player is also given a choice of heading up or down, which I think would give a more natural circuit around the area from that choice, but where either way you sorta end up at the Elfsong eventually if you just ride along the edge of the map. I don't know, but just seems like it might have been more interesting as an approach, with less wondering where to go or aimless backtracking.

It's fairly easy to miss Jaheira's house otherwise. If going the normal route from the Basilisk Gate, it might take several hours of play before this happens, since she won't mention it until you actually arrive at that location and interact with the first NPC there. Going from the Baldur's Gate (gate) instead, I think it's much more likely that the player might have that as their first introduction to the city, which would help buttress everything else. For me at any rate.

It's a natural first base of operations too, at least until the party reaches the Elfsong Tavern, and we get a nice story hook for Jaheira's arc if she's in the party. It'd somewhat mirror what happens when we first reached the Emerald Grove, or the Mausoleum, or Rivington, except this time involving someone in the party. Entering that building as the first thing that happens in the Lower City feels like a much stronger way to introduce the Lower City itself, rather than the entrance by the Flaming Fist headquarters, or the Stormshore Temple (which are the first two buildings by the Basilisk Gate). The Basilisk Gate also throws an alleyway at us and an entrance to the sewers, right there, like pretty much directly on top of the initial area transition/waypoint. The Basilisk Gate has more nodes to choose from, since it breaks off into more directions at the first path branch, which I think can overwhelm after having just done Rivington. By contrast if the first thing that happens is we go to Jaheira's house, to me this feels like an obvious place that she would have lead us, like for Character reasons. To check up on the kids and make sure they're alright.

You know because she's probably concerned. Especially about the younger children that she's adopted, and so it makes a lot of sense that way. Of course she'd bring us there. We won't be going shopping at the Sorcerous Sundries or chasing down Assassins in the sewers as our literal first thing to do, cause Jaheira has the good sense and practical focus to lead us to a safehouse in the City, given everything that's just happened. I mean right? lol

Granted this might be slightly disorienting from a map navigation point of view, but probably not really. Again because the area transition from Wyrm's Rock would be taking us not to the very first Gate we pass through, but to an area of heightened interest for a party member (Jaheira in this case). Or I don't know, obviously I really enjoy Jaheira, but this could also be randomized by whoever is in the Active Party.

So for example, Lae'zel and Shadowheart have their own priorities right? Something as simple as randomizing how we enter the Big City based on a roll, or perhaps approval, or things like that from the current active party would make each run feel more unique - with more of a sense of purpose based on the party makeup, rather than just the generic lay of the land.

For Alfira I didn't get the same triggers with her standard Act III dialogue on the roof of the Elfsong. I thought since Lakrissa was there, it might just play the scene if I clicked on her, similar to what happened at the Last Light, but didn't get anything there this time. We jammed anyway, just for good measure.

20241020035714_1.jpg
20241020041910_1.jpg
20241021223521_1 - Copy.jpg
20241021225013_1.jpg
20241021223000_1.jpg
20241021223123_1.jpg
20241022215052_1 - Copy.jpg
20241020100431_1.jpg


I realized when I recruited Minsc, that we had also enabled that Mod that unlocks the level cap. This lead to some weirdness I think, cause he recruited into the party at lvl 12, when everyone else was still at lvl 10. Probably no big deal, since he's a bit underwhelming usually. I switched some weapons for my mains, gave him Phalar Aluve and kept him as a vanilla ranger with the ranger-esque stat block (DEX 20, using the only finesse longsword two handed so it'd be more his style.) It's hard to decide who will get which armor as I've been rotating between the Yuan-Ti scale, Dex Hide, and the Armor of Agility which we blew a couple grand on, so trying to keep everyone agile and looking fit. As opposed to my usual of trying to jack Minsc up with super strength, we just kept him Dex focused. Here he drinks the potions on occasion and we mostly pretend heheh.

Overall I suppose Act III is still more entertaining with the Mods than without, but I worry a bit that the kind of content added via mods just isn't on the order of magnitude that would be needed to really spice things up with new areas or new monsters, maybe new NPCs. I still haven't seen for example a mod that can add some written dialogue or create a pseudo-cutscene in game or something that allows for more of a new narrative sweep. New areas or repurposed areas for more combats. I think it will probably take me the rest of the game before Minsc or anyone hits lvl 13, but it is a bit of a motivator to stick things out. Or just taking in the view with Lae'zel, more likely!

Guess we'll have to see!

ps. random aside, but one of things I'll miss about BG4 not existing, is that we won't get to see a second run at like the fonts and the UI or mounts. I think it would have been interesting to see a portal to the city of Coin, but where the fonts and shields look somehow more jagged or swoopy - as if doing a BG2 callback hehe.

Also the horse, of course! Like I just want the Mr. Ed Bucephalus version on that, but crossed with everything else, and Pegasus wings too I suppose, clash of the titans style. I mean why not? Maybe along with the new Bastions that just dropped, we get an Artax for the neverending thing?

theblackstallion.jpg

lotte.jpg


Will the mods be able to fly that high? I'd take a black horse of course at lvl 13 for that trip, but haven't found it yet.
 
Last edited:

Black Elk

Habitué
Messages
346
Hit Level 13* in the House of Hope.

For my main that meant 2 lvls in Sorcerer (so I could get the meta magic Distant Spell for long range magic missiles), and 1 lvl in everything else. I took Paladin as the last class in the Jack of All Trades sequence, just cause I didn't want to mess around the oath. It had an alright symmetry, with s'War Cleric of Tiamat as the second multiclass at the start and then Paladin of Tiamat as the penultimate after we killed Ansur.

Went after Gortash first, and gave Alfira the Ruby Red slippers hehe

Gale has been along for the ride pretty consistently, working the Globe in the battle with the dragons and devils and such. Tried to get the back benchers into the action occasionally, since Jaheira sans wildshape is mostly just heroes feasting us, and Halsin has been hanging with Orin for some time now.

We accidentally killed everyone at Sorcerous Sundries in a botched break and enter, I thought Alfira had us covered with the cloud of darkness but somehow the animated armor guys agro'd and then it all went chaos. After clearing out the various elementals and such, Rolan's projection decided to split, so we've been without a steady supply of magic scrolls. I managed to grab a Globe scroll from Tabernacle dude though, so I think we're solid for the home stretch.

20241107045907_1.jpg
20241107045913_1.jpg
20241105165614_1.jpg
20241107035849_1.jpg
20241121011252_1.jpg
20241121011804_1.jpg
20241121030512_1.jpg
20241121034158_1.jpg
20241121050549_1.jpg
20241121190209_1.jpg
20241121190405_1.jpg
20241121193414_1.jpg
20241121195140_1.jpg
20241121202845_1.jpg
20241121203956_1.jpg
20241121221647_1.jpg
20241121230025_1.jpg
20241121204505_1.jpg


Draconic Sorcery again for the finale I suppose unless we can hit lvl 14*, which might be doable chasing down Orin. The way it works for the additional levels, most characters got a perk or lvl 7 spellslot for the full casters which can be upcast. I'm pretty sure my Multi-Class character tops out with lvl 4 spellslots which opened up once I took that 13th level as a Sorcerer. Will have to see how it all shakes out, cyclone to Oz hehe
 

Black Elk

Habitué
Messages
346
Managed to hit lvl 15* during the ascent to face the Netherbrain

Our ending was a bit lackluster, somehow I botched the duel with Orin and got murdered - but then Lae'zel and Minthara murdered her right back lol.

I guess I should have pinged her with magic missiles to open like last time, but instead of the Heroic resist the Durge thing with Withers, we just got the 'Bhaal's super disappointed in you' scene and some extended ramblings from Sceleritas Fel. After freeing Orpheus things were going smooth again. Summoned all the allies and had Mizora disintegrate the Emperor.

Minthara and Karlach we had hang back with Dame Aylin to kill the dominated Red Dragon. Shadowheart and Alfira lit up the fireworks vs the Brain and Lae'zel closed it all down with the Silver Sword of the Astral.

Ended with the sonic boom Shatter from the trusty Lute to boot. At the reunion party I'm pretty sure everyone fell victim to the Urge, despite all our better efforts hehe. No big to-do I guess, for halfassing the Bhaal Spawn thing.

For the most part all the mods held up, except for the druid wildshape thing. Couple cutscenes had some clipping with the wings, but nothing too major. Overall it was more entertaining I think with a party of 6 and a couple additional levels in the endgame. I think maybe lvl 13 with a feat would have probably been enough, but it does give a bit more of sense of progression. The higher spellslots are pretty powerful. Alfira had the Globe of Invulnerability via magical secrets, but also able to cast it again with a lvl XII slot for example, which was potent. Upcasting even spells like cloud of daggers is quite nuts with a lvl XIII slot, which helped us take out the Dragon. Probably needs a supped up difficulty to justify it, but I had fun all the same.

20241123231956_1.jpg
20241123232132_1.jpg
20241122230837_1.jpg
20241123233730_1.jpg
20241123235507_1.jpg
20241123235605_1.jpg
20241124014656_1.jpg
20241124021516_1.jpg
20241124040645_1.jpg
20241125014852_1.jpg
20241125015403_1.jpg
20241125024144_1.jpg
20241125024202_1.jpg
20241125210955_1.jpg
20241125220845_1.jpg
20241125221049_1.jpg
20241125222214_1.jpg
20241125230924_1.jpg
20241125231557_1.jpg
20241125232715_1.jpg
20241125233111_1.jpg


Not sure what to try for next, but probably not the Jack of all Trades thing again hehe. One and done on that, but Din with wings will surely return. I think the extended lvl curve and larger party thing has promise.

Alfira should have been a full companion all along! Made total sense to me! She rocked it pretty much the whole time lol

ps. When updating the various mods I saw that the "Tactician Enhanced" Mod for the Party Limit extender is also out now as well, so that was encouraging.
Something new to play around with for the party of 6!

It's customizable, but I'm trying it with the Default Setting which scales to the party size.
For a Party of 6 it's like +10% HP and another Action for the enemies. Seems straightforward enough...

20241125233346_1.jpg
20241126142409_1.jpg
20241126151057_1.jpg


The way it works for this Mod, the difficulty is set up In-Game, with a passive toggle added to the hotbar, so pretty similar to the Party Limit mod. It works in Honour Mode so that's what we're doing. Also Tactician or Custom, basically whatever is chosen from the launch menu initially. Should be interesting! Will have to see how it goes heheh

Catch ya next round gang!
 
Last edited:

Black Elk

Habitué
Messages
346
Finally figured out the Druid wildshape thing, the LvL extender mod was the culprit. This was a relief as I was worried it might have been the Scratch mod Beasts and Familiars with the smaller wolves, which I was quite fond of.

I nix'd that Lvl extender mod for now, so that my Druids could get back in proper form. Also because the Tactician Enhanced mod keys off the Party Extender to scale the difficulty, and that stuff is sort of undermined by added levels and such. The mods I'm using right now don't mess with the XP, seems like that's a whole different approach. For Tactician Enhanced using Honour Mode with party of 6, the enemies all get another Action. For Party of 7 or more there's a 30% HP bloat, and it just goes up from there extra bonus action etc. But I haven't been able to determine if you can use the Party Limit to scale beyond the limit. So for example using the 6 party specs, but only using 4 or 5 characters in the crew. In the beginning of the game on the Nautiloid and on the Beach, the party is limited (to 3 in the prologue, 5 until Withers and the Gate) so you don't see the extra Actions for the hostiles until after the Grove. It's pretty solid though. Like I nearly got wiped by the Goblin Fezzerk cause he got to throw an extra concussion grenade. Stuff like that

For the next out, I'm keen to keep it Wild. Shadowheart saved us from certain doom in the battle with the Cambions initially so we're leaning that direction. I toyed with everyone wearing their regular safety colors for a little while, but then Shadowheart agreed that we should force our goth aesthetic on everyone to keep things tidy for now. Maybe once we get the threads we'll let everyone go ham with some of the other dye colours lol.

20241128013208_1.jpg

20241128040616_1.jpg
20241126152232_1.jpg
20241126152342_1.jpg
20241126215416_1.jpg
20241126222520_1.jpg
20241127000723_1.jpg
20241128065419_1.jpg
20241128015451_1.jpg
20241129010742_1.jpg
20241129011219_1.jpg
20241128013226_1.jpg


We also took the time to save Kagha this run too, since I'd forgotten about her last time completely.

She should definitely be a companion option. I also found myself missing Withers and the goodberry girls when I did the Jack of all trades, so we brought Brynna back too. Going just pure class Sorcerer I think to raise the roof and keep winging it.
 
Last edited:

Black Elk

Habitué
Messages
346
Red eye Din got his ass handed to him at the Creche hehe

Kith'rak Therezzyn went no mercy when I goofed the dialogue and refused to show the artifact. We threw down our weapons and cowered in fear, while they brutalized us with Githyanki crossbows and chomps from the Dire Wolves.

We almost got dropped by the Hook Horrors too, prior to that. Only narrowly escaped there, but then into the waiting arms of a Githyanki psionic death whirl. Like right after we hit lvl 5! hehe

20241129150929_1.jpg
20241130101039_1.jpg
20241130110442_1.jpg
20241201035446_1.jpg
20241201040244_1.jpg
20241201040309_1.jpg


I think we've seen most permutations on the Draconic Sorcerer, so I thought for the next run I might try a Dragonborn D'wizard. Kagha inspired us to get back to our Druidic roots, but I also like the idea of a Druid-Mage similar to the Druidic Avenger Kit of BG2.

So basically a Druid but with some arcane flavor and extra versatility coming from the wizard spells. I think Druid is interesting because their big power spike comes at lvl 10, leaving a little bit of room to experiment with the 2 remaining levels before hitting the cap. I think lvl 5 makes sense for the dip, so 4 lvls in Druid then 1 lvl in Wizard towards the end of Act I, after claiming the Circlet of Int from Lump and the Ogres. Mechanically we'd get that 3rd level spellslot on pace with the other full caster characters, so writing a lvl 3 spell for Wizard along with the cantrips and ranged weapon (light crossbow) out the deal.

Still eats a feat at the high end, but with half a dozen wizard spells for versatility to offset that, and an option to Specialize as a mage. Probably a Divination D'wizard. I haven't quite decided yet hehe.

20241201092534_1.jpg


Now that there is a simple way to scale the difficulty level of the campaign to make a party of 6 more challenging (via the Tactician Enhanced mod) I think there is another reason why 6 works pretty well here...

It has to do with all those things like targeting miss-clicks, party pathing snafus, traps etc. Instances where the player is given incomplete information or unreliable controls as a way to make sure certain things happen. The sort of party movement stuff mentioned before as irksome, but taken as if they're here 'by design' rather than as flaws. Intentional basically. So for example, the ease with which a player might accidentally click on a Red interactable or set off a trap and agro nearby NPCs, or initiate a combat prematurely when they meant for something else to occur (say an ambush). Or how relatively tricky it is to gauge the actual movement distances from the pathing previews. Accidentally body block ourselves or other members of the party - getting stuck on a doorway, going the long way round, slipping on the ice. Also drawing opportunity attacks. Moving further than you meant too, or not far enough, for a ranged attack line of sight etc. All that stuff.

The impression I get is the controls are imprecise, because if they weren't, then nothing unexpected would ever really happen and the player would just blast through every encounter or puzzler, like without enough 'oh shit' moments to make the player feel like they're actually overcoming the scenarios.

I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing for the game as is, I think I'd rather have some more interesting traps sure, but the point is that, for any of those "Surprise! Gotcha!" moments where the player gets screwed over by missclicks, these are just way easier to take in stride when there are 2 additional party members.

It's much less likely that a given missclick or goof of that sort will result in a total burn with a TPK wipe, or land the party in a situation that is unrecoverable. Taking the Red interactables as an example (faction disapproval for attempting to steal, getting sent to jail, flight or fight to the death) when that happens there is a better chance that one of the extra party members can defuse the situation via roll (say guidance, bless, bardic inspiration etc). Or when it comes to the fight or flight, a better chance to prevail or flee and survive in either instance with a larger party.

I think this moves the game from a situation where any single goof or mis-click along the way might end a run, to a game where the element of surprise from jank controls or foggy previews becomes entertaining rather than frustrating. Especially since most people will have played through the content with save/reloads before attempting stuff like honour mode where the player is more likely to die from cascading misfortunes of those types. Even with the supped up difficulty or legendaries and such, where initiative order makes such a difference, when there are 6 party members in sequence rather than 4, just feels like there's more room to take big swings without it becoming a death factory, or just blowout battles where any misstep could have the whole crew undone.

Given the way the game is set up, I think the human error mistakes are much more entertaining to endure with a party of 6 than 4, because at least that way, when things go haywire, you have more hands on deck to put out the flames, or deal with the emergent 'oh shit' stuff that results. I think anyway.

I still skip a lot of dialogue sometimes, so it's inevitable we'll click the wrong thing from time to time, but with 6 you get a little bit of cushion there for enjoyably death defying escapes. Even when those don't quite work out hehe.
 
Last edited:

Black Elk

Habitué
Messages
346
Thanks dude!

Yeah I mean it's definitely doable, I've ascended the brain stem like half a dozen times thus far, although I'm not sure it would be particularly enjoyable to play Honour Mode without having already played through the game on Tactician mode to completion beforehand. It's mostly the same difficulty there, aside from the legendary actions, like with the same sort of basic enemy behavior and the same number of camp supplies to long rest (80 instead of 40, single use restoration pods etc.) So you can kinda game it out from one mode to the other. Though it's never been as exciting as the very first time trying to get those Golden dice.

Going from Tactician to Honour the challenge is sort of just figuring out new ways to use Inspiration as more of an essential resource. The Inspiration meta becomes the most important meta I think. Any bonuses there, whether from spells or items, party comps and such, that will allow us to put a thumb on the scale whenever the dice are actually rolling, but the option to re-roll when you fail is the key. So if we have 4 inspiration points at the max, that's like 3 re-rolls to get through a given dialogue with skill checks. I don't know why I just feel like I can never burn the last point unless it's super mission critical hehe, ensuring that Minthara doesn't get put to death by Ketheric, or that Lae'zel doesn't get nerfed by the Zaithisk, stuff of that sort. But otherwise, since Inspiration caps off at 4, it's good to anticipate burning through them quite often. Sometimes I try to leave a couple easy ways to recoup inspiration when needed, like if you can remember where/when it gets rewarded from the various characters in-game, you can delay doing that stuff until you have fewer than 4 inspiration. Examples would be like saving the Magic Mirror in the Blighted Village till you have Astarion in the crew, to get the Charlatan inspiration. Or Shadowheart waiting on shooting down the Moon in the Selunite Outpost to get the Acolyte inspiration. Sometimes characters will be inspired by random stuff that's already transpired, if you bring them on board in the same area before leaving, even the zombies, just depending on what Background they have.

Durge has a unique Background (Haunted) with lot of easy inspiration gets, like where you can stomp the wounded Flayer on the beach for a bonus inspiration to kick things off, or do the random things to either embrace the Urge or resist the Urge, like from fairly early on. Other characters get excited for other stuff, so rotating them around can help, but it'd be hard to know when to do that without having seen it play out once before already. With the full 4 inspiration points, the other main resource to manage is camp supplies, which seemed pretty trivial to me when using reloads, but for a no-reloads run becomes more key/ Just to make sure the crew is stacked with the spellslots and such. There are a lot of tedious things one can do to take pressure off the long rest/camp supplies, like by using Withers for respecs, or recruiting zombies to do camp casting for goodberries and the like. In a pinch I'd say go for whatever, but there's usually enough food that it's not too bad unless you horde everything like I tend to do. Again I don't know why, but I just never want to sell any of the named items. They tend to just accumulate and live in the camp chest. I'll think well this will be handy 50 hours from now when I need to buy another scroll of Invulnerability, but until them I'm always thinking 'hmmmm maybe it will be useful for some esoteric build?' Though that's rarely the case. When I tidy up and sell more stuff as I go, it's pretty rare that we run out of food, even if going full narcoleptic with the constant long rests hehe. Tradeoff is usually more click tedium or backtracking to shore up the loot/GP, whereas in Tactician I'd probably just steal and reload or press ahead without really bothering hehe. Honour mode caters to the meta on the minutia for that stuff and justifies it in a way, like for all the things I'd typically ignore. CHA bonuses for the merchants, making sure Wyll or Alfira is doing the talking there, now that I've switched from a Draconic Sorcerer to a Dragon D'wizard with INT/WIS for the prime attritbute instead of Charisma. I went from a Silver tongued Bronze Dragon lineage, that made Deception and Persuasion a breeze, to one where I have to use Intimidation more often.

Using the high yield explosive barrels and bombs, or kiting tricks with dagger clouds to get through the tougher battles is another aspect. Some fights are relatively easy to blow past that way, but then it can also feel like a bit of cheap shot sometimes. Just depends where the priorities are I suppose. So in my current run, Lump's Circlet of Intellect is going to be a key part of the build. Usually I'd sound the Ogre Horn in the fight with Dror Ragzlin (because that can be a tough fight) but last time I did that, Lump got nailed by an explosion which collapsed the platform he was standing on! I lost the Circlet and the Returning Pike in one big kaboom, all fell into the chasm. Karlach was hella depressed about losing her signature thrown weapon.


20241201211203_1.jpg
20241201211533_1.jpg
20241201212155_1.jpg


If the same thing were to happen this time though, I'd be pretty hosed though cause I need the Circlet for the build. So instead I called them into the Gith fight, where we nearly got killed. Frank sadly didn't make it out of that one. Somehow Alfira managed a bardic inspiration to deceive Lump into trying again for 2500 gp. But anyway, just an instance of shit going haywire, even with the best laid plans.

Anyway, while it remains entertaining, and a solid BG game for me in the replay aspect, I still feel like it's missing something. We're doing the same encounters in the same areas over and over again, so the character builds, the party composition stuff, and all the emergent antics in-combat, I think those are what keep me coming back. I feel like if there were more Companions and more surprises on offer there, it would be somewhat easier to gloss over the fact that the path through the game is largely similar each time. I mean BG1 and BG2 were like this for me as well, so there's that, but also we had many more companions to keep greasing the wheels in those games. Here there are only 10, excluding mods like the Alfira one I've been using.

ps. I think having Kagha as a recruitable companion would have been a way to fix the general issue with Druid redundancy in BG3.

20241129010443_1.jpg


"But Black Elk" you say, "Don't we already have 2 Elf Druids?" hehe

Too true, but I think if Kagha was on board as well it would seem less like "Druid and a spare", and more like a Druid at the ready for each act. So more of a rotation. They might have even done it Druidic challenges where we had to pick. Or I don't know, like maybe because there all Druids, and Elves, that this could be an opportunity to differentiate the Elves and put the focus more on that. Solving the reduntant Druid problem by adding more Druids has a nice circular symmetry to it lol.

Since Kagha is a villain initially she could break either direction, Shadowdruid throughout, or a redeemed Druid via player intervention at the Emerald Grove. In which case her coming along with us could be like part of the penance issued by Halsin. So rather being demoted she gets charged with helping us undo the shadow damage in the shadow cursed lands, or something along those lines. If the party sides with the Shadowdruids, then the Evil group can still have a Druid without bringing all bringing all the other companions into it. Basically making Kagha into the fail safe Druid, where even if you allow the Rite of Thorns she shows up afterwards with viper in tow. In the Underdark where all the mushroom stuff is going down with Glut and Spaw, leaves room for a Spore Druid angle which could be filled by Kagha. Especially if it's like a bad trip there, to foreshadow the Shadowlands stuff in the subsequent act.

In essence instead of having 2 Druids with similar priorities who come online at roughly the same time in the game (Act II to III transition), here again, it would be more like just 1 Druid per act. Potentially with conflicts between the Druids themselves (whether for Elf reasons or Druid reasons), rather than breaks with the other companions. Or alternatively the unique challenge of keeping all 3 Druid around and on the same page, with some tension there. Like in the case of a 4 Druid campaign where the player is also a Druid.

Pushing it to the extreme in this way, I think rather than stealing the spotlight from each other, it would feel a bit more like 'just the plot' on the Druid front. Bringing the Shadowdruids into it but then not returning to the subject at all in later acts feels like a bit of a miss. Kagha could perhaps bring a bit more continuity there for the Druid arc as the game progresses. Compared to Jaheira who has the Harper element going on, and Halsin who's pretty clearly aligned with whatever, Kagha could drop a wild card into the mix! Obviously just pipe dreaming now, but I mean a Viper familiar, some Yuan-Ti angles. Talk about legs to run right there!
 

OrlonKronsteen

Habitué
Messages
234
Well, even on ‘balanced’ I find the combat ungodly hard in places. Maybe part of that is having a bard as my only arcane spell caster. But I’m hooked on my team and don’t want to switch it up.

And some of the puzzles are frustrating (at least one is instadeath and horribly designed, so you die through no fault of your own). So that is an impediment to a no reload.

I also confess to reloading at times to get better die rolls so I can experience the story a certain way. I’ve still yet to finish a game, but I’ve finally made it into act 3.
 

Black Elk

Habitué
Messages
346
Hell yeah! Making it to Act III is major!

I had a similar frustration with most of the puzzlers. On the one hand I felt like a good BG game would have basically every major encounter resulting in my death, cause that's just good design for the replay groundhog's day hehe. Like kill me 2 or 3 times before I prevail and that's a combat I'd remember, in BG1 terms I mean, that sort stuff is generally a net positive for me, but then in this one you got those puzzlers and booby traps that will straight up kill everybody. Plus on top of that, a lot of these combats in BG3 are very puzzler style too, where little things can totally tip the scales, or 'solve' the combat, depending on stuff like positioning or angle of approach, or the first action to open. Like well beyond the meta of winning initiative, but even there as well, since initiative can be gamed via class-choice for the main/party composition, feats, itemization and consumables. Examples would be like trying to kit out the characters with high Dex to make sure at least one person in the party is always rolling hot there. The Elixir of Vigilance for sure (but I always forget to drink before charging in! lol) so also that shield that gives the bonus, or maybe Alert on somebody, but it's hard to take that feat before an Ability Score Increase. There are some ways to make it a little easier, but still pretty rough. I died so many times, like just from some random movement goof in the Gauntlet, or crazy unexpected stuff happening and then falling to my doom. I really struggle with some of the controls and camera stuff, cause my brain's all backwards invert on that hehe.

Bard is hella fun though! I'm excited for your endgame!

I slept on the class for a long time, I guess just because there's no Bard companion character to really showcase how they'd play. I haven't tried the Gish archetype for Bard yet cause I always seem to drift more spellslinger, but I think they might be the most entertaining class overall towards the end, which is pretty apt. Early on I struggled with the Bard spell list compared to the other full casters. Like they got some mainstays for their lvl'd spells but their cantrips aren't as solid and it's tough to parse which lvl'd spells to choose since the selection is more limited. I use Longstrider all the time now, since it works on everyone, including summons, but it can be frustrating to cast one by one by one. Similar to the Druid's Goodberry, it's super useful, but onerous to click click click, especially with how everyone shuffles around and can't stand still if you don't ungroup first. It's just one of those things. I doubt I'd do it very often unless the game was really leaning on me to eek out every possible advantage to close the distance in a sprint hehe. Tasha's Hideous Laughter is pretty reliable vs humanoids, but then there are all these ways for the enemy to get in there and disrupt the early immobilizing spells. Like I don't think I've ever cast the spell Sleep even once in this game, which sucks cause that one's so thematic - like Lullaby goodbyes! I wish they'd made a better version of it, like Twin Sleeps targeting fewer enemies but with a greater chance of succeeding or accounting for enemy HP bloat which they obviously knew was going to be the deal. I don't know, that one was a miss. Cloud of Daggers and Shatter are solid, but choosing a 3rd level spell I found pretty tough. Haste can easily turn an encounter, so unless someone else is already on it, I probably take that every time. Glyph of warding is probably my fav all-around direct damage spell because it always hits and we can choose the damage type.

Honestly the Glyph of Warding-Sleep variant probably does what the regular Sleep spell should have done hehe, but then you also got the Exploding Force and the Elemental variants to target specific enemy vulnerabilities. It's reliable, like most times the enemy doesn't even get a saving throw against it if it's triggered, and the AoE is slightly larger than Shatter too (though with slightly less range). But I found it hard to replace any spells, when there are competing concentration/non-concentration spells sometimes I'll drop a spell to pick up the Glyph at the same time as Haste just so I feel like I got everything covered.

Not having Counter-Spell in the default Bard spell list can be a bit of a chore, since that one is very useful and very satisfying to use for some of the other full caster classes. I think it would have been cool if Bards could at least Counter-Spell other Bards, though there probably aren't enough enemy Bards for that to really work. Or I don't know maybe if Druids and Clerics had some sort of Counter-Prayer equivalent for the divine magic spells, so that way all the full casters had something similar to Counter-Spell. It's one of those things that makes Wizards and Sorcerers and the weirding Warlocks feel like they're edging out the other casters.

Magical Secrets definitely gives the Bard more to work with a bit down the road. That comes at lvl 10, or also lvl 6 for a Lore Bard. My temptation has been to try and make the Eldritch blast somehow work with the Potent Robes for that cantrip dmg bonus with the many rays, but it wasn't quite as badass as I'd hoped sans Hex, and without the Invocation Agonizing/Repelling blast stuff that the Warlock typically gets. I think that's one of those spells that doesn't have a scroll anywhere in game either, so not really an option there for Wizard dips into Multi-class, which otherwise would probably be pretty strong. I think only Bards can pick it up as a Magical Secret from the Warlock list. You can get Counter-Spell that way too, but when the pickings are pretty slim (only 2 spells chosen for most Bards) it's kinda hard to justify taking that one, or a cantrip. I tend to want something that can do direct damage or be upcasted, or the Greater Elemental since it's super useful to have a summon who can warp around. Lore Bards get the earlier Magical Secrets as well, but that one is limited to the 3rd level spells available when you hit Lvl 6, so a little trickier of a choice early on.

For Honour Mode, I think Magic Missile is a serious contender there as well, for the Secrets I mean. This is because many enemies during the endgame are given a Legendary ability called "Unbreakable" where you'll have to hit the bad guys several times before they'll take any damage. Depends on the enemy, but basically it's like 3 times as many hits or more, to kill the same dude, so it's super useful to have something in the back pocket for a multi-attack that will always hit. There's also that amulet from Blurg in the Underdark, which adds an extra magic missile over your level. Competes with a lot of other necklaces of course, but amulets are also an easier equipment slot to work than some of the other equipment types that directly boost Attributes. I like to do the combo where the main spell caster equips the Pearl of Power or the Spellcrux Amulet, restores a spellslot after casting something (say a Summon or a Buff) then switch it for the Magic Missile necklace. Like it's tough to blow a lvl 6 spellslot when you could be casting Otto's Dance, but sometimes 7 magic missiles and a furious Elemental is just what the Doctor ordered. Hard to know in advance though.

For Act III I think Hold Monster was probably my most used spell, like for any caster that can get that one, which thankfully includes the Bards. I do wish that the party was larger in vanilla though, because I think with 5 or 6 Characters you just have way more room to play around on the margins. Like where you could play as a Bard for the main, but still have a Wizard or a Warlock or a Druid or whatever, without stepping on each other's toes. Or I don't know, like trying to turn someone/anyone into the lockbuster and trap disarmer too, but then you gotta give up wearing whatever other cool gloves or outfit to make it happen. Like I'd just rather have a larger party that includes a thief for all that, but here it's like if you're a Bard you probably end up having to do that stuff as well to avoid too much overlap. It's a lot to juggle

Overall though, I just really like how they made the Bard feel fun to play! Like I wasn't totally on board with the Musician archetype being the only go to here, but it works really well when the instruments add a flavor element that makes every incantation feel like battle of the bands heheh. It's hard to put down that Lute once you pick up the tune!
 
Last edited:

OrlonKronsteen

Habitué
Messages
234
Yes, my lore bard is also my thief. Luckily, the system works so that you're more than adequate at the job without sacrificing too much else. Well, by thief I mean locks and traps - so I'm missing out on stealth and backstabs - if there is such a thing in BG3. But I'm okay with that in this run as I'm happy to trigger dialogue and cinematics.

In better news, bards do have Counter Spell. And it sure is useful. I was hesitant to pick it (and didn't on my first try) because it sounded like a 'boring passive,' but I would have a very hard time living without it. You want to talk about preventing reloads...

Overall, I really love the bard. Lots of flavour, great for dialogue. Not the most powerful caster, but some useful CC stuff which you've mentioned. I usually play warriors, but I enjoy Lae'zel and Karlach too much to roll my own. Yet, anyway.
 

Black Elk

Habitué
Messages
346
Yeah that's for sure! I ended up taking it again too, just to be on the safe side.

Even though our Draconic D'wizardry has been pretty furious and we've got a lot of Avenger style versatility with our spell-lists now, I'm still pretty limited by the number of spells we can memorize as a Mage.

Alfira had to step up and help me run interference with Counterspell. I also went for the Blast for her, cause Wyll is back benching it this run and force damage is pretty useful. Din went with the trusty Fireball for his lvl 3 spell, since Arron had a scroll waiting for us. It gets outclassed but still something very satisfying about reigning fire. We wrote Haste to the spellbook as well for the lvl 3 concentration. I think it should get the job done. Somehow we got Lump up to 5 grand, before blowing the horn a third time to snake his Circlet. We detoured into the Swamp to shore things up, and helped Kagha overcome her shadow.

Her speech at the Emerald Grove was so inspired, we decided to make her the leader of the Goodberry Gang, or as close as I could get with the Withers Zombies. I wish we could make more changes there, like to the voiceset and barks, but we got pretty close I think. We had to juggle some zombies around to get her an outfit together. Not an exact match, but serviceable. She's been carrying us through Act I with the Double Dragon style Druidic magic! Back to black hehe

20241204013503_1.jpg
20241204032003_1.jpg
20241204032251_1.jpg
20241204035036_1.jpg
20241204040546_1.jpg
20241204041109_1.jpg
20241204042426_1.jpg
20241204083118_1.jpg
20241204083338_1.jpg
20241204090004_1.jpg
20241204114535_1.jpg
20241204135846_1.jpg
20241204143944_1.jpg
20241204151021_1.jpg
20241204151303_1.jpg
20241204152435_1.jpg


A little goes a long way for me, like really I just need a few barks and hook in, and the hirelings almost work. I'd be cooler to have them threaded in like legit companions, but I still find it more entertaining than the default hirelings. I think Kagha made the cut for sure, especially after saving everyone from the Spectator in the Underdark lol.

The viper must strike!
 
Last edited:

Black Elk

Habitué
Messages
346
We saved all the Tiefs and all the Gnomes, rescued the Harpers and the Flaming Fists, the whole drill - then Shadowheart up and decided to just kill everyone with a rushed click of the spacebar lol

Damn, talk about bringing the Last Light Down...


20241205050244_1.jpg
20241205053339_1.jpg
20241205050640_1.jpg
20241205054301_1.jpg
20241205084518_1.jpg
20241207084133_1.jpg
20241207105640_1.jpg
20241205112459_1.jpg


We dipped immediately to try and rescue Jaheira, and succeeded in killing all the giant vines and a hundred Shadow-cursed everyones, but when it was all done she just went back to her regular spot and hit us with the usual dialogue.

I can't decide whether it's worth long resting or if we should just go for broke to the roof of Moonrise to see if she'll re-spawn there.

Had to expend every spellslot to keep Jaheira from dying, since she was a neutral non-ally, like healing words just long enough for her to get into the Panther form, but then she went invisible on us, and we had to smoke the whole place in every direction at once to make sure she didn't get nailed by necrotic crossbows.

Pretty insane, I can't believe she's somehow still alive after all that!

If Viconia were to enter frame and stab her in the literal back, I'd probably be alright with that, but as it stands it's tough to lose 'em all at once. Like it's just such a make or break moment, and you have to give up all that for Dark Justiciar Shadowheart.

I think Jaheira would totally break, if embrace the Urge, but might have to anyway, since Isobel is already completely dunzo off that shot call. Facing down Ketheric will be trickier now I guess hehe


20241209155923_1.jpg
20241209160353_1.jpg
20241209160320_1.jpg
20241209161907_1.jpg
20241209164810_1.jpg
20241207084118_1.jpg
20241209165147_1.jpg
20241209160454_1.jpg
20241209164801_1.jpg


Too wild. Least we got Zombie Kagha as a backup. She totally went to the floor to save Harper Lassandra but then had to kill her anyways when she was possessed by the Shadowcurse. I mean I think got the curse lifted, but that one will probably be stinging for a while.

We fly on. Gotta mop up and see what will crack off with Ketheric cause we were totally unprepared for the Last Light battle. Like Shadowheart totally changes her outfit during the interlude so I was all tripped up without the click-heels lol. I guess it works though. Gotta catch em all!
 
Last edited:

Black Elk

Habitué
Messages
346
Oh wow, we pulled it off! I didn't know this was possible to achieve

Dark Justiciar Shadowheart and Jaheira in the same party!

She showed back up after we killed Ketheric, waiting at the Moonrise throne room with Withers, all by herself!

We embraced the Urge as well to get the Slayer form, so basically it's Dark Phoenix Jaheira or something. Pretend helm of opposite alignment maybe. Still not sure how we threaded that needle, I thought all was totally lost at the Last Light.

It could all catch back up with us at some point, I guess, but I think if I slay Orin and then ditch out on Bhaal at the last second, we can still go Slayer for a bit - while still saving Jaheira in the end!

20241209185338_1.jpg
20241209185722_1.jpg
20241209191900_1.jpg
20241209192301_1.jpg
20241210061544_1.jpg
20241210064746_1.jpg
20241210065529_1.jpg
20241210070038_1.jpg
20241210070506_1.jpg
20241210070654_1.jpg
20241210071308_1.jpg


Shadowheart started breaking it up almost as soon as we left the Shadowfell, so she can get with Shar more completely I suppose, but that's ok, her bonus points there for style.

I switched out Kagha for Jaheira, which seemed natural. We'll have to redistribute some gear, but at least fern gully will survive to fight another day hehe. The spacebar almost did us in there, but D'wizardry prevailed somehow lol. Now we just gotta make it through the Astral past the Gith and wing it over to the Carnival! hehe
 

Black Elk

Habitué
Messages
346
Well, we burned our bridges and 3 romance options in about as many nights lol.

Can't blame it all on the spacebar, but the spacebar definitely set the trend.

Things came undone again when Minthara decidded to make her move, like right after the mind meld scene. Click through response had me reply to the whole "what do you see prompt" with lover as the top option, so Shadowheart was pretty pissed that we didn't give her any heads up. Honestly I thought we might see some bonus points for dissembling on that one, but for a Trickery Cleric of Shar she didn't seem to appreciate those deflections. The Minthara romance didn't last long though, because then Mizora moved in to dynamite the whole affair even further. I blame it on the wings lol

20241210084224_1.jpg
20241210092410_1.jpg
20241210092543_1.jpg
20241210094959_1.jpg
20241210095137_1.jpg
20241210101428_1.jpg
20241210101558_1.jpg
20241210102149_1.jpg
20241210105414_1.jpg
20241210121320_1.jpg
20241210152927_1.jpg
20241210163218_1.jpg
20241210163312_1.jpg
20241210164531_1.jpg
20241210165032_1.jpg


I'd have kept it going, cause I think the whole Dark Justiciar Shadowheart + Jaheira might be difficult to replicate. Like it's really tough to keep the Yellow NPCs alive vs all the extra enemy actions, and when it happens to Isobel you at least get the Harpers to help, but when it's Jaheira all by herself vs hella Shadowpeople, I worry that half the time she'd just end up dead in Tactician Enhanced. In any case it wasn't the Romance that did me in but the mods, as I think the Faerun Color dye mod needed an update. On the launch screen it was showing a little yellow caution symbol "3rd party mods" next to the load savegame in the menu. I think maybe the old pak was hanging around from the one time I tried it out via Nexus. Anyhow, after updating the mods it went away for the new saves.

I also saw that there was Mod to make Durge's cape invisible! So of course had to hop right on that.

The capes in this game are always clipping, especially with certain weapons on the back. I find myself avoiding them generally even though they have nice boosts, just cause the clipping is still annoying. It looks particular jank on the Tiefs since there tails look like they're being cut off. The Invisible Capes mod solves the issue by just making all enchanted capes hidden on the Avatar. Works for me.

I also wanted to try Spore Druid again. I had attempted Circle of Spores before, but the VFX on that was really distracting. Symbiotic Entity is an ability that lasts all day until long rest, but gives the Character a perma green glow and fuzzy spore sounds and visuals for the duration. It was busy enough visually to make me not really want to play as that Sub-class, but the NOVFX mod had an option to remove all those Mushroom effects included. I'd much prefer that there was just a simple toggle in the settings to hide/show certain visuals. Whether that's equipment or the various flows and halos from spell effects. As it stands, the only real solution is just these mods that nix the worse offenders, but I kinda wish there was something a bit more down the middle.

In any event, back to Act I I guess lol

20241211132608_1.jpg
20241211155318_1.jpg
20241211193454_1.jpg
20241211221639_1.jpg
20241212213238_1.jpg


This time I went for D'wizard immediately, at lvl 2 on the Beach. Mainly because last run it felt like waiting until level 5 to dip into the Multi-class Druid/Wizard was taking too long and the Character just sorta felt like a regular druid for most of the game, especially during for the more challenging parts early on.

I also thought I might try making myself less item dependent by dumping both STR and DEX in favor of INT. Mechanically trying to hit that 18 isn't much better than the 17 I can get from the Circlet (and it costs a bit more to do so, cause I have to take a 14 in CON, rather than pushing to 15/16 there to raise my Intelligence via ASI) but it does allow us to wear a different helmet. There are a lot more ways to raise STR or DEX than there are ways to boost INT through itemization.

Playing with a DEX of 8 in Act I is pretty tough, since I'm always showing up late in the initiative order. We nearly got killed twice in a row vs the Githyanki crossbows. This time Lae'zel failed her decption check and they just murdered us before we could blink. Din had to use his wings to jet out of that one lol, but it also cost us a couple grand to raise everyone from the dead, cause I decided to try for it at lvl 4. Got killed, healed and raised up, then forgot respawned into combat again after leaving camp. It was a whole ordeal

On the upside we saved May this time, and made off the Hags Hair, so I was able to hit 20 in WIS early on.

I think Circle of the Land is optimal for the Multi-Class because Natural Recovery allows to restore a higher lvl spellslot than Arcane Recovery coming from Wizard. Circle of Spores is more powerful later on when we get the Summons and Haste Spore stuff, but then gotta get that far. Circle of the Land has that ability right from the start, so more useful in the Early Acts I think, but I wanted to try the Spore thing hehe.

Tactician Enhanced is pretty fun. It's hard enough to keep me on my toes, but not so hard that it's like a blowout. Some encounters definitely feel harder than others, depending on what sorts of special attacks or magic crossbow bolts they're throwing around hehe. I believe it's possible to further customize the challenge by going into the Mod settings, but I've just been using the default for Party of 6, cause it seems about right to me without having to scroll the UI around to see other characters. I don't really see much point in going 5, like it might as well be 6. Everything fits that way!
 

Black Elk

Habitué
Messages
346
We got our wings clipped atop Moonrise Towers once again.

Brought 9 reanimated skeletons along with us, like the entire Tiefling entourage pretty much, but then they got nailed by a Fireball which set off a total Necromite death spiral.

I watched it play out for like 20 minutes hiding downstairs by the area exit, while they kept incubating death and exploding, then respawning and exploding over and over again. Eventually the necrotic shrapnel brought Ketheric's HP down just low enough so that he decided to bounce.

Sadly even after all that, we still remained in initiative, with one mystery Necromite preventing the combat from concluding. Pretty sure it's a bug.

I read afterwards that we could have hidden and sneaked over to the Illithid Colony portal after exiting, but I thought I was stuck so we had Gale detonate.

20241214153901_1.jpg

20241214124641_1.jpg
20241214134011_1.jpg


This was after communing with the mushrooms and doing all the Dark Justiciar stuff again somehow too. Although this run the order there was completely backwards, cause we didn't have the Sceleritas Fell dream first before botching the Isobel fight. Alas!

Jaheira had it pretty rough this time all around. The Last Light crashed hard before we'd remembered to do anything of consequence there. I mean Isobel got dropped instantly by those flying Ghouls, but I think Jaheira had the worst of it, cause all the Harpers were still around and she had to dispatch them personally. The Drider Karniss escaped as well, to make our Moonrise headaches more pronounced.

20241213130531_1.jpg
20241213135208_1.jpg
20241213135702_1.jpg
20241213135933_1.jpg
20241213141304_1.jpg
20241214121606_1.jpg
20241214122123_1.jpg
20241214124005_1.jpg
20241214124637_1.jpg
20241214124655_1.jpg
20241214153833_1.jpg


I think if he didn't have the Spider Sanctuary up for Ketheric round 1, we might have survived to the reach the next area. In any case, as things stood, Gale decided to go rogue.

Dumping Dexterity was probably ill advised since I'd removed the Dex gloves for a sleight of hand earlier, but then we lost precious moments with many goofs right at the outsets. Probably set us up for defeat.

We're already on to the next attempt now. I think this run we're just going to use the Circlet and forget about dreaming on that 18 INT.

17 will have to do, so we can achieve a respectable AC and decent initiative without needing the Dex gloves on at all times lol.

20241215180056_1.jpg
20241215094504_1.jpg
20241214223731_1.jpg
20241214223851_1.jpg


I don't know what we'll do about those Necromites this out, but probably not bringing a bunch of Skeletons to the fight with Myrkul. Maybe Shadowheart will just have to become a Life Cleric again. Like sticking to the heroic path, cause Tactician Enhanced is pretty hard!

Better luck next time!
 
Last edited:

Antimatter

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
1,499
Ouch, I had to double-check the area where you lost. Turns out, that battle can be quite challenging, good. The fact I only played the game on release makes me unaware about subsequent difficulty changes. I enjoy your reports, they are full of knowledge, good humour, and excellent screenshots.
 
Top Bottom