Pathfinder: Kingmaker and Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous General Discussion, Playthroughs and Minimal/No Reload Thread

[alice_ashpool]

Hi all.

Minimal/No Reloads of Owlcat's Games, Themed Playthrough, Videos, Showing off, anything and everything Pathfinder cRPG

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Taking a break from Infinity Engine Games I have recently started an "Informative Playthrough" of Pathfinder: Kingmaker in a Minimal Reload style. Basically I love this game. I talk a lot about why it is super good and how cool it is and mostly about mechanics and combat encounters and that sort of stuff. As a "spiritual successor" to Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 it is ripe for No/Minimal Reloading. I have never actually No-reloaded (Last Azlanti Mode-ed) the whole game but I am far too caught up in playing around with stuff and enjoying recording some videos.

The videos are very much in the Mivsan_NT style (though no where near as good) if anyone has enjoyed his excellent completionist SCS playthrough.

Introduction:
1 hour and 30 minutes of pure character creation:
Prologue/Tutorial:

Bonus Content No reload run through the prologue on Unfair:

Anyway, apart from the Infinity engine games the Owlcat ones are the only way for me to get my RTwP fix. So much fun. Happy Gaming RPG crew.

 

[Blackraven]

Very interesting! I've never played this, so I may not watch everything (so as not to spoil myself), but this sounds and looks very good! You have a pleasant voice too. Good luck with his endeavour!

 

[mlnevese]

Both Pathfinder games have extremely hard fights. The first one has sudden difficulty spikes that may take you by surprise. So far, I think the second one is more consistent in terms of difficulty. The game won't stop you going to areas you are not ready to face. Coming back later is something we learn very fast when playing them

 

[Antimatter]

Great videos, @alice_ashpool! Hope Mivsan will join these boards one day.

I haven't watched them fully, but picking an Enchanter for Unfair was an interesting idea. Also, I like the fact you still commit mistakes from time to time, eg. moving with a ranged weapon equipped close to an enemy and getting a crit sneak attack as a result. It makes the playthrough more "human".

 

[alice_ashpool]

Thanks! Yeah, I make mistakes all the time, and that's part of the enjoyment of RTwP for me, its messy, but the Unfair "demo" was particularly full of mistakes - was not expecting that someone in the triple assassin room to resist sleep (needed a natural 20) and so then just left linzi to "die" - and in the final fight I really phoned it in since no matter what you do its mostly waiting for Kaessi to kill everyone.

---

My "idea" for Unfair no-reload which I may get round to eventually trying is to roll with three Sorcerers: Fey, Undead and Serpentine - each with Enchantment meaning I can CC almost every enemy. Then take a second specialisation on each e.g. Conjuration, Necromancy and Melee, throw in a couple of dedicated summoners (Maybe Cleric and Druid) and Linzi and I might have a hope in hell of going for an act 1 Unfair No Reload, but certainly not easy. Really depends on quite how much can be CC'd then Coup De Grace-d. I've seen one reddit post in which someone said they had done a whole game Unfair + No Reload run and it seemed legit so it should be 100% possible.

 

[Xzarloxara]

I am doing my first ever run of this game right now, and I am liking what I am seeing so far. I like how there is a lot of mystery and unanswered questions in the plot and I often find myself guessing as to what is going on in the world. I am currently in chapter 4, I think, the one involving Varnhold. It seems quite different from the previous chapters. I have no real leads or clear goal on how to solve this chapter's quest, so I am just exploring mostly. My main character is an aasimar sorcerer with the arcane bloodline. He is mainly focused on offensive and disabling spells. Having a lot of fun with it.

 

[mlnevese]

I am doing my first ever run of this game right now, and I am liking what I am seeing so far. I like how there is a lot of mystery and unanswered questions in the plot and I often find myself guessing as to what is going on in the world. I am currently in chapter 4, I think, the one involving Varnhold. It seems quite different from the previous chapters. I have no real leads or clear goal on how to solve this chapter's quest, so I am just exploring mostly. My main character is an aasimar sorcerer with the arcane bloodline. He is mainly focused on offensive and disabling spells. Having a lot of fun with it.

It's not obvious how some side quests actually tie to Varnhold. Eventually you'll find the right quests and things will start to become clear.

 

[alice_ashpool]

I am doing my first ever run of this game right now, and I am liking what I am seeing so far. I like how there is a lot of mystery and unanswered questions in the plot and I often find myself guessing as to what is going on in the world. I am currently in chapter 4, I think, the one involving Varnhold. It seems quite different from the previous chapters. I have no real leads or clear goal on how to solve this chapter's quest, so I am just exploring mostly. My main character is an aasimar sorcerer with the arcane bloodline. He is mainly focused on offensive and disabling spells. Having a lot of fun with it.

This is part of what I love about the game - Wrath of the Righteous is all "wham! bam! demons!" while Kingmaker is this slow burn over years with spikes of activity, and all the while you have this big overarching mystery that you slowly uncover. In a way perhaps similar to the mystery in BG1 compared to the Bossrush style of late BG2/ToB. WotR (once all the teething troubles are ironed out) is visually and mechanically superior, but Kingmaker has a special quality to it.

Also, Arcane bloodline is great, good choice.

 

[alice_ashpool]

Playthrough Update
I have pretty much refined my 30 day route through Chapter 1 - however so much of it depends on where you get the Technic League Ambush since ambush at level 2 is not reload safe with this MC on Challenging imo (no decent early level CC, shameful for an Enchanter). probably safer just to give up a e.g. Amiri then rush picking up the missing companions.

Anyway, I went Nettles Crossing -> Thorn Ford -> Ancient Tomb -> Pine Patch -> Old Sycamore neutral path -> Mite Section -> Sycamore Depths easy stuff -> Kobold Section to collect Harrim (and Jaethal)

This will get level 3 at a predictable point avoiding everything difficult.

Then: Abandoned Hut via Technic Ambush -> Temple of Elk -> Technic Camp -> Old Oak -> Boggard Hunting Ground -> Return to Olegs

The whole thing is done at Medium Encumbrance unfortunately, but the time saved via rations > time wasted through 83% speed.

Then Sycamore for Tartuccio -> Fangberry Cave -> Olegs -> Stag Lord

Once that is done there should be around 10 days left before the 30 day limit so I might try to squeeze in a return via Trail in the Hills, 3 Pine Island and Tuskgutter then back to Olegs. Oak that Strayed if possible. As far as I know, the 30 day counter is when you cash in Stag Lord to Oleg but I might be wrong, little info out there.

Some obvious tips (which I cover in my videos!) are: ditch Valerie's tower shield, bench amiri's mega-sword, buy a suit of plate mail for Valerie. That makes most of this part pretty easy - though clearing spitting centipedes without resist acid and delay poison is a small pain.

---

So In my playthorugh so far I have got to the point where I am setting off to the Abandoned Hut and have 84/90 days left on the clock (24/30 for the bonus). No deaths no reloads so far, even though I'm "making content". Poor Fey Enchanter is relegated to casting Enlarge Person and spamming Demoralize. I refuse to take Ranged Combat feats on a spellcaster who isn't using rays so Valerie shoulders the burdens of dealing with almost everything.

Little sample: First part of clearing the Old Sycamore Caves.

 

[Antimatter]

How do you build the companions? Do you use mods to respec them? Do you Multi-Class them?

And yeah, Enlarge Person and spamming Demoralize is actually not useless. But that can discourage players from playing Enchanters (especially if they don't know what to expect in the mid-, late-game).

 

[alice_ashpool]

I'll lay out what I have at level 3 for the challenging difficulty playthrough. No plans to respec but have hired 1 merc.

MC Spitespawn Fey Enchater (20 in cha)
1: Spell Focus; Enchantment; GSF: Enchantment
3: Spell Penetration
Future: Takes almost entirely Enchantment spells + some transmutation stuff for undead - Should be able to push a max DC >40.
Current Role (in descending order): Daze > Demoralise > Spray and Pray Crossbow; Makes Amiri/Harrim Big
Spells in order of taking: Enlarge and Reduce Person, Mage Armor

For this run 1 mercenary:
Human Feyspeaker Druid (19 in cha, 13 wis, 12 dex and str) - Leopard Companion
1: SF: Conjuration; GSF: Conjuration
3: Spell Penetration
Future: Being a Smilodon with Mirror Image, casting phantasmal web and phantasmal putrifaction + the regular amazing druid spells
Role (in descending order): Daze > Demoralise > Flare; Buffs Pet for Hard Fights

Amiri
3: Weapon Focus bastard Sword
Not much to say here. Hides behind Valerie - i'm only using her in the early game + her quests. All feats towards offensive stuff e.g. Outflank at 5. Goes down the Lethal line of rage powers. She gets bite while raging with animal fury so the Bite-Trip Cloak is handy for making her more effectivve. Its a shame the game makes barbarian feel like a less effective fighter sometimes, but its that or send her off into Freebooter

Valerie
2: Weapon Focus bastard Sword
3: Dazzling Display
Future: Outflank at 5, Shatter Defenses, Improved Critical and into Stalwart Defender at level 11 for TSS 10 Stalwart Defender 10 (There are minor gains to be made from going TSS 9, SD 10, [X]1 but its not a game changer. Basically I am taking her offense rather than going all in for defense. I somewhat consider taking lots of feats for +1AC something of a waste when I could be taking +1 to hit. She is one of my favorite NPCs because Fighter is just powerful through and through.

Linzi
2: Skill focus: trickery <- necessary for no reload imo on challenging+, if no better source of lockpicking
3: Lingering Song
Future: Being a Bard. Singing Dirge of Doom until a better source of Shaken comes along. Buffing everyone sky high, supporting everyone. Will probably pick up crossbow feats too so she can do more stuff.

Harrim
3: Spell Focus: Necromancy
Future: Brutal Necromancer Cleric. Takes outflank at 7 mostly for Valerie, almost always enlarged and stays behind Valerie to bonk enemies on the head and/or hit them with Inflict Wounds spells. Cats Grace evens out his terrible dex. Casts amazing buffs and almost always has Archons Aura up. benefits from Heighten Spell metamagic for the Aura since no SF: Evocation. Harrim is the best.

And then for the other companions I will swap out the Amiri slot mostly for their questlines or where there is particular content such as taking Ekun and Jubilost on troll trouble. I wont be using Ekun much because he is just too good with Devourer of Metal showing everyone up. Likewise for Nok-Nok: i don't want to make things too easy!

When there is no other reasons i will probably have Jubilost in 6th slot because I love alchemists and Jubi is fantastic. I might also indulge in a 2nd merc for showing some stuff off in the end game: Eldrich Archer with Devourer of Metal and Maximised Hellfire Rays via Ranged Spell Combat while Jubilost uses True Strike Infusion so everything hits is a favorite of mine.

 

[alice_ashpool]

Playthrough Update
Didn't get Technic Ambush so visited Abandoned Hut then cleared Temple of the Elk. Decided to try a new route so went to Three Pine Island then Old Oak, skipping Tuskgutter because I don't like Amiri not to be able to win outright. Then went back and fourth for a few in game hours to eventually proc Technic League Ambush. Felt a bit dirty but it worked. Still No Reload. Still Going Strong. Going to clear League Camp then return to Olegs via Boggard Hunting Grounds and Fangberry Cave meaning Tartuccio (and maybe some of the remaining centipedes in Sycamore Depths) should net level 4 and I will feel confident enough for Giant Centipede. Will buy Delay Poison Communal and Protection from Fire, Communal from Oleg to ensure nothing untoward happens with Giant centipede and Tartuccio respectivly.

Clearing the Temple of the Elk:

 

[alice_ashpool]

My revised Route is as follows:

1. Nettle's Crossing
2. Thorn Ford
3. Ancient Tomb
4. Pine Patch
5. Old Sycamore Neutral Route inc all easy combat in caves/depths
   1. Everything Overground exc. Worg
   2. everything in Caves inc Quest
   3. The "eastern half" of the depths travelling from Mites to Kobolds. Not touching Frogs, Giant Centipede, Big Spider, undead
   4. Leave Tartuccio for later
6. Oleg's
7. Abandoned Hut
8. Temple of the Elk
9. Three Pine Islet
10. Old Oak
11. Technic League Camp
12. Boggard Hunting Ground
13. Two Rivers Field
14. Fangberry Cave exc. final Swarms
15. Oleg's

This took 15 of 30 days and a fair bit of fighting while exhausted due to forced march back to Two Rivers/Fangberry

Next:

1. Return to Old Sycamore to clean up (and Level 4 - Tartuccio 1st should net this)
2. Riverine Rise (might not appear)
3. Endless Plains
4. Oleg's
5. Stag Lord

Provisional additions following Stag Lord:

1. Trail in the Hills(?)
2. Old Mesa
3. Glade in the Wilderness
4. Tuskgutter's Lair

Then return to Olegs.


Edits: Glade in the wilderness is probably too touchy for no reload without higher DC grease - iirc Silent is tough. I always have trouble popping Trail in the Wilderness in act 1 too. It never seems to want to appear. Old Mesa should be fine for Level 4. Tuskgutters at this stage is a pain because it means either bringing Amiri to Stag Lord's or going back to Olegs then making the trip out which is an extra c3 days. Amiri is fine in Stag Lord but I prefer to Have Regongar for Shocking Grasp on Dovan and/or Auchs. It can be tight to clear the whole fortress in 1 rest otherwise. Not that there is anything lot by going outside and resting 9h, except my pride.

 

[dmwyvern]

Hi all.

Minimal/No Reloads of Owlcat's Games, Themed Playthrough, Videos, Showing off, anything and everything Pathfinder cRPG

--

Taking a break from Infinity Engine Games I have recently started an "Informative Playthrough" of Pathfinder: Kingmaker in a Minimal Reload style. Basically I love this game. I talk a lot about why it is super good and how cool it is and mostly about mechanics and combat encounters and that sort of stuff. As a "spiritual successor" to Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 it is ripe for No/Minimal Reloading. I have never actually No-reloaded (Last Azlanti Mode-ed) the whole game but I am far too caught up in playing around with stuff and enjoying recording some videos.

The videos are very much in the Mivsan_NT style (though no where near as good) if anyone has enjoyed his excellent completionist SCS playthrough.

Introduction:
1 hour and 30 minutes of pure character creation:
Prologue/Tutorial:

Bonus Content No reload run through the prologue on Unfair:

Anyway, apart from the Infinity engine games the Owlcat ones are the only way for me to get my RTwP fix. So much fun. Happy Gaming RPG crew.

Very cool! I have to catch this!

 

[Cahir]

OK, I stumbled upon the similar problem I've had in Kingmaker. I cannot find the path to the right side of the map, which prevents me to complete several of the quests (notably Heart of Mystery and Nameless Ruins). From what I understand it's opened via a successful Perception checks (high DC) on the main map. It seems I may have missed the failed Perception test when I was first exploring the part of the map where the path should open, and I cannot access it. From what I read these checks can be repeated after levelling up, but that's the problem. I have recently levelled up, but there is no Perception test anywhere in that part of the map. I have revealed anything I could, but there are multiple what seems to be dead ends in the map, where I'm sure there should be a path, but it's locked for me.

I hate this mechanics, this is what made my Kingmaker run bugged and prevented me from completing the game. Anyone has an idea how to get there? If the only way to get there is to pass the Perception test *the first time*, this would make me very upset. Man, this game is fantastic, but this kind of shit makes me want to rage-quit.

Anyway, I'm now descending to the Abyss under Drezen to probably kill this dumbass balor and maybe finally take out Minagho, so I hope some paths will unfold, otherwise I'm clueless how to get there.

 

[alice_ashpool]

You can still do those puzzles in chapter 5 iirc, and you will have leveld up so can re-attempt perception checks. Otherwise another tedious option is to roll the check with other party members - swap out characters and return all the way to where the the location should be. Also, and i'm not sure about this, but lowering the difficulty might lower the DC of the perception checks. Getting those areas specificaly to appear was a total crap-shoot for me and there might be some other code-switches that need to be on.

 

[mlnevese]

OK, I stumbled upon the similar problem I've had in Kingmaker. I cannot find the path to the right side of the map, which prevents me to complete several of the quests (notably Heart of Mystery and Nameless Ruins). From what I understand it's opened via a successful Perception checks (high DC) on the main map. It seems I may have missed the failed Perception test when I was first exploring the part of the map where the path should open, and I cannot access it. From what I read these checks can be repeated after levelling up, but that's the problem. I have recently levelled up, but there is no Perception test anywhere in that part of the map. I have revealed anything I could, but there are multiple what seems to be dead ends in the map, where I'm sure there should be a path, but it's locked for me.

I hate this mechanics, this is what made my Kingmaker run bugged and prevented me from completing the game. Anyone has an idea how to get there? If the only way to get there is to pass the Perception test *the first time*, this would make me very upset. Man, this game is fantastic, but this kind of shit makes me want to rage-quit.

Anyway, I'm now descending to the Abyss under Drezen to probably kill this dumbass balor and maybe finally take out Minagho, so I hope some paths will unfold, otherwise I'm clueless how to get there.

Cast Eagle Eyes on your higher perception party member BEFORE going to the map...

 

[Cahir]

Hmm, I haven't thought about changing characters, just to pass this check. That's a good idea, thanks! Casting Eagle Eyes also looks like a good idea, but does it last during map exploration?

 

[mlnevese]

Hmm, I haven't thought about changing characters, just to pass this check. That's a good idea, thanks! Casting Eagle Eyes also looks like a good idea, but does it last during map exploration?

It should last until your next rest

 

[alice_ashpool]

Level 1 Spell Picks for Kingmaker Fey Sorceress Discussion

Sorcerers gain Level 1 spells at 1 (x2), 3, 5 and 7, for 5 total.

I chose/am choosing the following:
1: Reduce Person, Enlarge Person
3: Mage Armor
5: Magic Missile
7: Expeditious Retreat

There are always going to be spells wish I had but Sorceress is about:

• which spells are most useful to be able to cast repeatedly
• which spells will never grow old
• Which spells will we not have access to through other means

Rationale:
Reduce Person and Enlarge Person at Level 1
Both of these spells are powerful buffs which tend to "not get old". While there are replacements for Enlarge Person, they come much later in the game and being able to both increese melee damage considerably and increase reach are very powerful in the early chapters. Reduce person really does not get old since it will give a size bonus to both Dexterity and AC. I don't use it as much in the early game as Enlarge Person but it works for Melee frontliners (so called "tanks") so long as you do not mind the damage reduction, for Dex based Melee especially those who have additional damage sources (e.g. making tiny Nok-Nok) and it works for ranged characters - most notibly those who do not depend on size for damage, such as Octavia sneak attack cantrips. It also gives your "plink and pray" ranged characters a slightly higher hope in hell of hitting (+1AB, +2 dex, for a total +2AB)

An example "fully buffed" party might have 1 reduced front line character (e.g. Valerie), 2 enlarged 2nd rows (e.g. Harrim and Amiri) a reduced flanker (e.g. Nok-nok) and a reduced ranged sneak attacker (e.g. Octavia). There are some reasons you would not want to be reduced, such as if you do not have a way to overcome damage reduction, but often that +2AB outweighs the reduction in damage due to increased consistency.

Mage Armor at Level 3
Personally, this is only a worthwhile pick if you have 1+ animal companions. Being able to increase their AC by 4 is very useful. If you have an Animal Companion Mage Armor never loses importance but for others it will be outclassed by Bracers of Armor. If you are happy to manage Potions of Mage Armor/Wand of Mage Armor you could get by without needing to take it at all. I take it for convenience, use and longevity with an Animal Companion. A more ray focused character might swap this for True Strike.

Magic Missile at Level 5
Magic Missile never misses. And as I am not taking Point Blank & Precise Shot a source of unmissable damage is very useful. Theoretically outclassed by Snowball in damage, Stagger effect and ability to add Sneak Attack but Snowball requires a Ranged Touch Attack. Taken at level 5 rather than any earlier because it will fire 3 Missiles at this point making it feel worth it to cast.

Expeditious Retreat at Level 7
Underrated spell in my opinion. Having increased move speed is very powerful (more so in RTwP). It lasts 1minute/level so much longer than haste (1 round/level) and being able to instantly pull your caster out of danger is the best defense. it is also self-only.

Notable Missing Spells
Shield: A regrettable omission as a Self-cast only spell but +4AC is not as important on a non-melee caster as one might think. I would rather expedious retreat away and close down aggro with another character than have a (non-melee) caster being hit at all. There are always Alchemist Infusions (which are much better because you can cast Shield on an Animal Companion, 2-hander or Dual Wielder)

Vanish: Useful panic spell to lose aggro, but Fey Sorceress gets Fleeting Glance at level 9, a 1round/level Greater Invisibility ability - much better.

Sleep: Amazingly effective spell untill it becomes useless. Fey Sorcerer gets the 10HD version: Deep Slumber as a bonus spell, but not until level 7. Would probably take on Hard difficulty, on Challenging I can get by without it.

Grease: The ultimate crutch. I don't like Grease and can take it on Linzi for the couple of early encounters where it comes in really handy.

Color Spray: I have a Feyspeaker specially for Illusion Spells.

True Strike: Same as for Snowball, it is a great spell but I am avoiding Ranged Touch as much as possible.