Purpose and meaning

[O_Bruce]

I don't expect much from posting this, and it may be just a way for me to get some weight off my shoulders. And maybe eventual discussion of this may help someone.

I am in place in life, where I am compelled to ask, how people manage to find a meaningul purpose in life?

I don't know. As a teenager and in my early 20s, I was actually in a rather good place. I worked on my self-esteem, it seems I had a guidance how to live a life and the future didn't seem bleak. But I think afterwards, after I graduated from university, the reality ensued. One story short: my education turned out to be nearly useless, gaining work experience in relevant field nearly impossible, entry jobs requiring said experience. I ended up doing jobs I wanted to avoid, which in turn, did not grant my any further advantages in the work market. It seems all I did in life resulted in failure.

Meanwhile, I also failed at turning my passion into a career to work. And today it is not even an option - I lack natural talent (so my growth late is slow) to compete with actual artists, not to mention generative AI.

Which bring me to the current day, where I am in my 30s. I have problems finding and mantaining jobs, and nothing I find actually is fulfilling. I don't have nearly as much energy as I used to have. I am out of shape and I am gaining weight. My passion for art is barely lit. My self-esteem is in shambles. I know I should keep moving and trying, that is the only reasonable option, but I don't even know where. And even if I'll choose path, I know I won't be able to fully commit. I can't commit to drawing practice, I cannot commit to work on my healt. I cannot commit to do as little as going for a walk everyday. I lack a direction and sense of purpose, and thus I cannot make myself to believe that anything I decide or do actually matters.

I know there are people here with much more life experience that I do, so I wonder if your insight can help me.

 

[JustKneller]

That is a good question.

I've been trying to write a thoughtful response to your post for a bit, but words fail me in many parts of it. My situation is not entirely dissimilar to yours. For all I can ramble on about it, the most insightful thing I can offer is to look into existential therapy. It's apparently a thing and can be helpful in pulling a person out of a rut to help one find a way to live a more meaningful life. I don't think any insights I might have would be nearly as valuable as going through a deeper process of self-discovery. I mean, we think we know ourselves, but probably not as much as we think.

 

[OrlonKronsteen]

I'm terribly sorry to hear this. I don't know if anything I have to say is helpful. Like JustKneller, I find your question hard to answer. At the very least, please know that you've been heard.

As for what I do have to say, it's a bit of a stream of consciousness, random and disconnected tidbits, and perhaps a little self-indulgent, but here goes:

We live in an alienating world. It's a hard place for many of us (myself included). And if we use its values and hold its idols up as measuring sticks for our own self worth, it can be wretched.

I, too, can say that art (in my case, writing) is as close as anything to a passion as I've ever had. However, I've always known that, statistically, it is nearly impossible to make a living at. Just knowing this caused me to give up before I'd really gotten started. I've had a resurgence of late. The key is in the relationship you have with your art. You have to love it, and be able to do it just for that. If you end up finding success of any kind, it's a bonus, and something to rejoice in. But if you are just doing it to make money and put all that pressure on yourself, it can become torture. You really need to do it for yourself.

That said, we need to make money. I've disliked pretty much every job I've ever had. You wouldn't believe how many jobs I've tried, and how many careers I've contemplated. And making money didn't help - I was doing really well in corporate communications, but I was miserable. If I'd stayed in it, I'd be retired now, but I was so unhappy I had to get out. Money itself couldn't cure my malaise.

Eventually I found something tolerable. I learned to accept that this would have to do. I know that I'll never love my 'job' (Christ do I hope my boss never comes across this thread or some of my other posts, lol). Tolerable can be okay, as long as other parts of your life are good (e.g. the joy of making art, relationships with family and friends). However, I have been unable to get a break in my new field and I'm stuck being underemployed at a barely living wage while idiots who got into the biz a few mere years before me have risen to the top and are on the gravy train. Do I get frustrated? You're goddamn right I do. What keeps me from falling completely to despair? I don't let my professional life - or on a greater level, my need to participate as a cog in the machine to survive - define my value as a human being. Yes, I need money, we all do, but that is just part of a good life. Making peace with this was a big help to me.

So this is just touching briefly on my own experience. Not necessarily applicable to you, but maybe. Sometimes, being able to 'decide' things is easier for some people than others, for a whole variety of reasons. Sometimes our wounds are too deep, and sometimes we're not hardwired to change in some ways. I know I'm lucky I can choose to not let my professional failure define me - not everyone can. And I'm lucky I can deal with a merely tolerable career. It's enabled me to focus enough on finding one (without slipping into depression), and having the willpower to follow through (go to school, etc.) with what I needed to get a job in that field.

A couple of random questions:

1. Have you investigated the possibility that you might have clinical depression? I ask because what you describe sounds very much like what some of my friends with depression have described. And this isn't to say that your struggles in the world aren't real or that they're caused by depression, merely that they can be exacerbated by it. It might be worth looking into.

2. Have you considered becoming a social worker, counsellor, or a psychologist, or even just volunteering to help people in similar situations to you? Your first-hand experience could be invaluable, and sometimes there is no greater joy - or no greater sense of meaning - than can be found in helping others. You want to talk about being profound human being... a life, even part-time, of service is about as great as a life can be, imo. I have considered this for myself, but came to the realization too late. You are still young, in your thirties.

 

[Antimatter]

Thanks a lot for sharing your story. As others have said, it's indeed a difficult question.

Not everyone is a Nobel Prize winner. So "a failure" is a vague term. Have you ever had a pet and cared for it, helping it live longer than it would have without your help? Then you're a savior in this pet's eyes. Have you drawn a picture, and the person who ordered was happy and thanked you? Then you've made the day of that person better. Have you ever made friends and discussed stuff with them? Oh, I know that one. Yes, you have, and for many years, I've always been looking to your posts. You're important, you matter.

However, as others have said, the symptoms might look like clinical depression. You cannot diagnose it yourself, that should require a professional medical evaluation. Experiencing a persistent sad mood for weeks, along with other symptoms like loss of interest, fatigue, or feelings of worthlessness, indicates it's better to seek a specialist for a diagnosis and treatment.

It would be fair to say life is difficult for the majority of people. Today's world is complicated, and there are just so many things that harm people's lives. I know that from my own experience. When the outside world doesn't give me anything, I focus on hobbies and doing things I enjoy personally. Whether they mean anything in the grander scheme, it doesn't matter. Gaming is one of such things.

 

[O_Bruce]

Thank you for your responses, those are more than I could ask for.

The most reccuring theme I see is about the possibility of me having clinical depression. I think there's no need for me to find out, because I am pretty sure I do have it. I can even pinpoint the experience/event that's an origin of that depression. I realized that what I am experiencing is matching depression sympthoms about 2 years after said event. I also think my depression is also "existential kind", for lack of a better term.

In theory, I can seek for a therapy, though I am afraid that the therapist in question wouldn't be able to help me and I would end up wasting my money and the therapist's time. What I think I need from a therapist is help in understanding mechanism that affect my motivation and behaviour, and help me navigate through them. Or maybe, if I think about it, help in changing my mental patterns.

@OrlonKronsteen The second of your questions is really interesting. You see, I have studied psychology and my one first attempts to get experience in the field happened to be a social worker. Unfortunately, institution I was working under, a public "free" healthcare, moved me around a lot. I have worked in addiction clinic in a sort of hybrid of a office worker and psychologist in terms of emergency. I have done odd jobs for social integration center. I have worked as a support for the staff and as a psychologist in health care center for older people. The last place especially made me realize, how corrupt the institution I worked under was and how little it actually cared about patients. This lead me to quit, move to other city and search for similar career in there. I learned of wonderful world of modern job market then: hundreds of applications sent, not a single opportunity to work in a field I spend years preparing for. If someone is wondering why I mentioned that my education and work experiences turned out to be useless, this is why.

Worth mentioning that above experiences are not starting point to my depression.

I'd like to adress some other things here as well, but I think I need some more time to think. Once again, thank you for your responses, I appreciate each and every one.

 

[Cahir]

Since your interest go to art (sketching/drawing, right?) have you tried to meet with people who share the interest? Perhaps going to some conventions or other similar events? Perhaps meeting like-minded people would create some unexpected career opportunities.

 

[OrlonKronsteen]

In theory, I can seek for a therapy, though I am afraid that the therapist in question wouldn't be able to help me and I would end up wasting my money and the therapist's time.

This can happen (indeed it happened to me), but the good news is that you can find another therapist. It can take some shopping around to find someone who you mesh with. It's a bit of a pain, but well worth the effort if it works. Fixing ourselves is always hard work. More context from my own experience: I'm a recovered addict. I had to work like a bugger to get through that. It sucked, but this is how I know it can be done.

 

[BelgarathMTH]

I've been through similar crises in my life. I got a bachelor of arts in music and a master's degree in divinity because I thought I was called to ministry, then realized I wasn't. That was five years of undergraduate and graduate school down the drain - "worthless education". I went back to undergraduate school for two more years and got a music education degree so I could get a paying job. Then I realized I hated teaching in schools. The whole time I had a part-time job playing viola in the local symphony, and I started to hate that, too. I had always had a passion for classical music, but the stress and pressure of trying to do it for pay ruined that. Plus, there's a toxic, abusive side to the classical music world that people who haven't lived through it might not know about.

I also suffer from bipolar disorder, and a lot of my life has been about learning to manage that so I can function independently. It wasn't easy.

I can't really help much, I don' think. I believe everyone has to find their own path, ultimately, although listening to other people's experiences can help. I can share one practical tip. I had a lot of education and advice from good mentors during my music and divinity training about the importance of meditation. I didn't really take it that seriously or think it was that helpful until later in my life. As a younger person, I thought, "What is the point of sitting there deep breathing and trying to completely clear my mind of thought? How is that going to help me feel better and treat my anxiety and depression?"

But with more experience of my mental health condition, I began to see how allowing my thoughts to run out of control was in fact amping up my anxiety, depression, feelings of worthlessness, all kinds of bad things. Teachers of meditation often call it the "monkey mind". I also like the Sanskrit phrase "Chitta Vritti" to describe it. The phrase doesn't translate exactly, but "chitta" means roughly "mind", and "vritti" is a context-dependent flexible word that implies circular motion like a tornado or whirlpool, but it can also refer to "way" or "path". Some translations of "chitta vritti" can be "whirling mind", "spinning mind", "mind following chaotic path". The full phrase used in yogic meditation is "chitta vritti nirhoda," where "nirhoda" means "calm" or "still". "Chitta vritti nirhoda" - "Whirling mind be still".

I also had a lot of studies of Buddhism that I found the most helpful out of all my divinity studies, especially its philosophical ideas about acceptance and detachment alleviating suffering.

I accepted that I have not been a "winner" at life by most people's definitions of winning, and I've become okay with that. For there to be winners, there must be losers. If I'm one of the losers, that's fine. My being a loser can help somebody else be a winner. I'm part of the fabric of life. That is enough. That is the way of things.

I probably don't need to go into specific techniques I use to practice mediation, because I think it's pretty easy to find technical advice on what to do. I could share a few of my techniques if asked, but I don't know if that would be helpful. The bottom line tip, I guess, is that doing daily meditation and learning to be aware when your mind is chaotically spinning and hurting you in the process can be very helpful and healing.

 

[O_Bruce]

I accepted that I have not been a "winner" at life by most people's definitions of winning, and I've become okay with that. For there to be winners, there must be losers. If I'm one of the losers, that's fine. My being a loser can help somebody else be a winner. I'm part of the fabric of life. That is enough. That is the way of things.

There is something really praiseworthy and worthly of respect in that mindset. I imagine your life experiences, maturity and study makes it possible.

Onto the topic of meditation, the only kind I tried in my life is zen. This is something I can try, in theory it should help me regulating chemical balance in my brain. There is a problem with commitment I mentioned in the first post - I cannot commit to do simple tasks at regular basic, what makes anyone think meditation is going to be any different? I certainly lack the confidence.

Looking at that mindset of mine, it appears as a downward spiral, one that I cannot stop.

Since your interest go to art (sketching/drawing, right?) have you tried to meet with people who share the interest? Perhaps going to some conventions or other similar events? Perhaps meeting like-minded people would create some unexpected career opportunities.

With my skill level, I don't think we can talk about career opportunity, but it could benefit in terms of rekindling the passion. About week ago or so there was a event in the city I live, that I attended with my family very sporadically. Despite our group being short on time, I got to talk to various artists at the event, and I think that was very good experience. I guess I may start actively looking for those kind of events.

 

[OrlonKronsteen]

@O_Bruce Are there classes or workshops you can do? Groups that meet to critique each others’ work?

 

[Cahir]

With my skill level, I don't think we can talk about career opportunity, but it could benefit in terms of rekindling the passion.

I get the feeling you may be too harsh on your skills.

 

[JustKneller]

The most reccuring theme I see is about the possibility of me having clinical depression. I think there's no need for me to find out, because I am pretty sure I do have it. I can even pinpoint the experience/event that's an origin of that depression. I realized that what I am experiencing is matching depression sympthoms about 2 years after said event. I also think my depression is also "existential kind", for lack of a better term.

In theory, I can seek for a therapy, though I am afraid that the therapist in question wouldn't be able to help me and I would end up wasting my money and the therapist's time. What I think I need from a therapist is help in understanding mechanism that affect my motivation and behaviour, and help me navigate through them. Or maybe, if I think about it, help in changing my mental patterns.

This is why I specifically mentioned existential therapy. There are a lot of kinds of therapy, emotionally-focused, cognitive-behavioral, gestalt, etc., but for what you're describing, existential therapy seems like it would be the best fit. But, I'm not a mental health professional, so grain of salt and all that.

I began to see how allowing my thoughts to run out of control was in fact amping up my anxiety, depression, feelings of worthlessness, all kinds of bad things. Teachers of meditation often call it the "monkey mind".

I also had a lot of studies of Buddhism that I found the most helpful out of all my divinity studies, especially its philosophical ideas about acceptance and detachment alleviating suffering.

+1 to Belgarath's input. I've studied Buddhism (started with Tibetan, moved to Zen) for the last 20 years. It (particularly meditation) has definitely helped me keep centered during times of existential crisis.

Looking at that mindset of mine, it appears as a downward spiral, one that I cannot stop.

All the more reason to get help. If you don't think you can stop it, it may take the assistance of someone else to break the cycle.

 

[O_Bruce]

Thank you for your insights, everyone.

@OrlonKronsteen I am not aware of said groups being near the place I live. But since for last years, I mostly drew commissions, of not-safe-for-work nature to boot, most of which I am not proud of, showing them around in person might be... troubling, to say the least.

 

[OrlonKronsteen]

But since for last years, I mostly drew commissions, of not-safe-for-work nature to boot, most of which I am not proud of, showing them around in person might be... troubling, to say the least.

This, I understand this feeling well. That said, I suspect Cahir may be on to something. Your work is probably better than you think. Depression can distort our self-perception.

But depression aside, this is something all artists go through - myself included. Sometimes we create bad work - especially when we're learning. In fact, it's impossible to get good at art without creating bad art. In the beginning, unless we're the rarest of geniuses, all we do is make crappy art. It comes down to this: we have to give ourselves permission to create bad art. We can't be afraid to fail. There's no reason to be afraid to fail. It's natural, it's part of the process, and key to getting good. Every artist we admire went through it. Learning not to be self conscious or personally injured by having someone witness a failure is a mindset that can be cultivated. And the great thing is that other artists know this, and unless they're assholes, they will always be supportive, both of the work and the psychological process of learning to fail - and then grow. That's why I mentioned workshops and classes. I find it helps.

Getting back to Cahir's comment, I suspect you're better than you think. But even if your work isn't as good yet as the masters that inspire you, that's ok. It takes YEARS to master an art (if it is even possible to master an art). A lifetime. I mean, most people don't understand just how much work is required. I'll bet @BelgarathMTH has some wisdom about this.

Just keep practicing, and have fun with the process, even if you make mistakes. The key is having a healthy relationship with your art. That sounds so corny, but I've learned the very hard way that it's true. If the context of your practice is a vacuum of toxicity and pressure (internal or external), it's no good.

 

[BelgarathMTH]

Onto the topic of meditation, the only kind I tried in my life is zen. This is something I can try, in theory it should help me regulating chemical balance ...

If there's really a chemical imbalance contributing to your suffering, you may need medication to assist your treatment. That would mean you need a doctor's diagnosis, advice, and supervision to help you get onto a medication that can treat the neurochemical issues. Pharmaceutical treatment helped me personally come back down from some episodes, but I found it of limited help for me long term. That doesn't mean that it might not be something you need.

Looking at that mindset of mine, it appears as a downward spiral, one that I cannot stop.

This would be a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you believe in your mind that you cannot, then you absolutely cannot. I can encourage you with all my energy and experience that you can take control of your mind if you believe that you can take control of your mind, even though that's much harder than it sounds, and I and others can offer techniques for practicing how to do it, but if you yourself are currently convinced that you cannot stop a downward spiral, there's really nothing much I can do from there.

There's only one person who can control your mind, and that's you. Although it seems I may not be able to help you as I would wish for now, perhaps at some point in the future, all the words of people who have suggested ways to take control of what you can control in yourself and in your mind will come back to you and be of help later. That's how it worked with me. As I said, I often dismissed the teaching of my mentors as not very helpful when I was younger, but their advice stuck with me even when I wasn't following it, and it was there when I needed it and was ready for it.

All that said, sometimes these downward spirals can be very serious, especially if you need outside help from crisis management professionals. Please reach out for help locally before you act on any feelings of despair or hopelessness.

If this topic is mostly posed in search of philosophical or existential meaning, and/or curiosity how others deal with life, I have my answers to those questions from a lifetime of study, experience, and contemplation, but I doubt my answers would be very satisfying to anyone else. All the thousands of years of human thought that illuminated my path is still recorded, and if anything is easier to find now than when I read it all in books before the internet existed. The wise human teachers of wisdom standing ready to teach those who wish to be taught are still out there, too. Not on the internet, though. They're in universities, clinics, and sometimes, though atheist me admits it only grudgingly, in churches. Teachers that do you any real, lasting good do it face-to-face, in personal relationships.

I wish you warmth, contentment, and peace in your life.

 

[O_Bruce]

If there's really a chemical imbalance contributing to your suffering, you may need medication to assist your treatment. That would mean you need a doctor's diagnosis, advice, and supervision to help you get onto a medication that can treat the neurochemical issues. Pharmaceutical treatment helped me personally come back down from some episodes, but I found it of limited help for me long term. That doesn't mean that it might not be something you need.

Let me explain. By chemical balance I meant, I am pretty sure, exclusively my reward system. We live in times when it is extremely easy to maintain a high level of dopamine constantly through various means - which leads to my mind building tolerance for it, making it so I need more dopamine for it to take the same effect. This is something that affects different areas of life, like internal motivation or abillity to delay gratification (like, for example, focusing on a long-term goal instead of being distracted by sort-term rewards). I only mentioned this since you indirectly reminded me that meditation was studied and apparently it is useful in regulating dopamine.

Personally, I would rather not take any medication like that if I can help it. I think in terms of help, psychotherapy appears more long-term more useful than being or medication

This would be a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you believe in your mind that you cannot, then you absolutely cannot. I can encourage you with all my energy and experience that you can take control of your mind if you believe that you can take control of your mind, even though that's much harder than it sounds, and I and others can offer techniques for practicing how to do it, but if you yourself are currently convinced that you cannot stop a downward spiral, there's really nothing much I can do from there.

I am always skeptical of claims like that, since to me it always sounds like make-believe. People also tends to forget that belief in whether you can do something or can't more often than not has its origin in lived experience. As in - I know my efforts are bearing fruit because I experienced it happen. Likewise, I know I am platituding for years and that my efforts are useless, because I experienced it happen.

Nobody is born with low self-esteem or belief they are incapable. This is something one learns in life.

Furthermore, me saying I cannot stop the downward spiral means I cannot do it right now. I think this is subject to change - maybe in the future, I'll be able to do it. What is also important, me saying it at all means I am aware of the problem, and thus capable of seeking solutions.

I wish you warmth, contentment, and peace in your life.

My warmth thank you. There are no better things to wish on the other than this.

Getting back to Cahir's comment, I suspect you're better than you think. But even if your work isn't as good yet as the masters that inspire you, that's ok. It takes YEARS to master an art (if it is even possible to master an art). A lifetime. I mean, most people don't understand just how much work is required. I'll bet @BelgarathMTH has some wisdom about this.

Some people can go pro in 3 years. I am platituding for 8, my best work was created in 2018. I am not sure if I can describe myself as intermediate, since my fundamentals are still so weak. If this doesn't show how inept I am at what I do, then I don't know what does.

I do agree that most people don't understand exactly how much owrk is required, and in modern day, not many care. They only appreciate the result and nothing more.

 

[Skatan]

I've read your og post and the replies and don't have that much great advice to offer. But I can mention I struggled with depression once some ~7 years ago or so and my feelings then seems quite similar to what you describe now, thought they had nothing to do with my job or even passions at the time and manifested themselves differently.

I found my way out of that darkness by pure luck, which is why I've hesitated to give "advice", by finding love; my now wife. I think what ultimately broke the spell was that I stopped looking inward, I stopped focusing on myself alltogether and instead focused on someone else and over time it just dragged me out of that shit-stained mud that had been drowning me. Now, I can't give anyone advice to find love as that of course isn't easily attainable by just pure will, but I can say for sure that too much introspective thought is not only healthy. At least it wasn't for me.

Focusing on work during half of my waking hours helped me. Meeting my family and pretending to be normal helped me. Meeting friends and again pretending helped. ANYTHING that pushed me out into the world helped. Staying alone at home was a pitfall.

Whenever I was home alone I drank heavily and secretly hoped someone would see how fucking miserable I was and come and save me, but that's a utopian dream that just won't happen. So yeah, not sure this helps you at all, but get out into the world as much as you can, spend time with family, friends and get as much time off-screen as you can. Drawing won't save you IMHO, life, connections with other humans, the basics and fundamentals of being a human will. All in my humble opinion of course, YMMW.

Dunno if you ever read Maslow, it really should be part of everyone's educations, but focusing to high up on the ladder before having the base steps covered is something I see all the time nowadays. People go straight for the self-actualization before securing the first three steps. So don't sell your "normal" jobs short, they are very, very important steps to take. If you try to reach the top of the stair with your work too soon, too directly, it's a recipe for failure.

I wish you all the best. It's a shitty situation and opening up like you've done here is a fantastic first step on a journey that might be quite long. You are not alone, you're not the first nor the last, but you are you and what helped other people might or might not help you. So I sincerely hope you find your way, whatever it is.