The Adventurer's Lounge: Guidance and Support for Candlekeep Annex Participants- Newbie or Veteran

[Alesia_BH]

Can someone please make a Weidu launcher for him? Or will he work if you just drop him in your override folder?

Don't worry about him. If he needs to override your CRE files, he'll override your CRE files. He's the best at overriding.

You just worry about kicking Mel's tuckus. Agreed?

 

[OrlonKronsteen]

You just worry about kicking Mel's tuckus. Agreed?

Whew, pressure!!! Gosh knows how I’ll ever do that without spike traps.

 

[Alesia_BH]

Whew, pressure!!! Gosh knows how I’ll ever do that without spike traps.

You'll be fighting VMel, I take it? Have you considered Ascension?

 

[OrlonKronsteen]

You'll be fighting VMel, I take it? Have you considered Ascension?

Yeah, I tend to play the vanilla version for reasons of nostalgia. I have considered Ascension (and even had it installed at one point, but never made it to TOB).

One thing I worry about is a big difficulty spike. I don’t want it to be any harder than a general SCS game. Any install configurations you’d recommend?

 

[Alesia_BH]

Over at Beamdog @Enuhal , @Serg_BlackStrider and I started a conversation about trying some no reload runs in a different game. We did this once, years ago, with Pillars of Eternity. We're considering doing it again. This seems like a more fitting place for the conversation than Beamdog, since we won't be talking about a Beamdog property.

At first I was going to host this discussion in DM, but then it occurred to me that others might be interested. I decided to use this thread because the idea is still in the preliminary stages.

So, Enuhal and Serg: What are you thoughts? Which game should we play? When should we play it? I'll be available after my current party run. As for games, PoE, PoE2 and Pathfinder all work for me. Note though, that I haven't played PoE2 or Pathfinder, so there will be a learning curve.

Speaking of learning curves, maybe we should talk about the elephant in the room: Baldur's Gate 3. I haven't played it yet. I don't even own it yet. I do intend to try it at some point, and it could be fun to explore it with friends. That should be on the radar, at least. What do we think?

 

[Alesia_BH]

Yeah, I tend to play the vanilla version for reasons of nostalgia. I have considered Ascension

One thing I worry about is a big difficulty spike. I don’t want it to be any harder than a general SCS game. Any install configurations you’d recommend?

Ascension only has a few components. I'd recommend all the major ones and most of the minor ones. Here's the Ascension portion of my Weidu log.

The final battle can be difficult, especially on Insane. It responds well to the difficulty slider, though, so you should be able to find an experience suited to your needs. Note, too, that SCS provides avenues for customizing Ascension endgame difficulty. You have options to change or not change the the AI and abilities of your foes.

I'd definitely recommend giving it a try sometime. To me it isn't a mod ending. It's the ending that we deserved but didn't get at release. That said, I can see the appeal of playing a familiar ending, for sure. I prefer AMel but VMel is cool too

 

[Enuhal]

@OrlonKronsteen Ascension diffulty changes a lot depending on the difficulty slider. If you're just planning to explore it, you could play around with that and find a setting that suits you. There is, indeed, quite a difficulty spike compared to even the harder SCS battles in my opinion, at least on tactical or insane (which are the difficulties I have experience with). For me, insane ascension is so tough that it kind of warps my approach entirely around the endgame, where I consider party composition, itemization and the like from the very beginning just by looking at the biggest of the ascension battles, which is a bit too much and the reason I rarely play with it. Others, of course, don't ever even play the game without the mod and know of several ways to achieve victory there (and it's true that SCS Amelyssan without ascension is not all that hard and can be a bit disappointing - in a full SCS run without ascension, I think that the hardest battles are propably in Watcher's Keep).

Regarding the idea of no-reloading another game: I do own BG3, but after initially playing for a few hours I suddenly lost interest in it (I can't even quite say why, exactly) - I am planning to return to it at some point once I am able to build up the motivation and time (can't play it with a podcast in the background like I do for BG), but propably mostly to explore the storyline and characters, not to get to deep into the game systems (as I didn't enjoy combat too much), so it's propably something I would not want to no-reload any time soon.

As for Pathfinder, I don't own any of the games and had so far not too much of an interest in them. I have lead around 4 sessions of P&P Pathfinder back in the day, so I am not completely unfamiliar with the ruleset, but I am not super adventerous when it comes to getting into new games and playing no-reload right away.

As mentioned over there, PoE2 is currently the one game I'm looking at that I may want to try in no-reload mode at some point. Doesn't have to be any time soon, but I would be fine with giving it a try in the near future as well, and, of course, a few other people to share experiences with could motivate me to do so (no pressure if the interest in other games is bigger, though). 2 playthroughs is not exactly the level of familiarity I would usually like before doing something like that, but I have experienced all parts of the story now, so I don't mind focusing on the game system for another run (though my approach and party would propably be terrible by the standards of anyone who is actually knowledgeable about the mechanical changes to the series).

 

[Serg_BlackStrider]

So, Enuhal and Serg: What are you thoughts? Which game should we play? When should we play it? I'll be available after my current party run. As for games, PoE, PoE2 and Pathfinder all work for me. Note though, that I haven't played PoE2 or Pathfinder, so there will be a learning curve.

Speaking of learning curves, maybe we should talk about the elephant in the room: Baldur's Gate 3. I haven't played it yet. I don't even own it yet. I do intend to try it at some point, and it could be fun to explore it with friends. That should be on the radar, at least. What do we think?

Well, it's hard to pick one with so many choices out there...

Right now I'm at the beginning of Act 6 of Pathfinder: Kingmaker, which is pretty close to the endgame and I'm going to finish it finally after all those exacerbations of the re-startis syndrome. Still no-reloads so far. My near future plans are Pathfinder: WoTR and BG3 none of which I've finished yet or even played long enough. I already finished PoE2 once on Path of the Damned with all DLCs and megabosses (alone with some more semi finished runs) so pretty confident to make it no-reload style. But now I'm more interested in playing both PoE and PoE2 in saga style like we play it with BG-SoA-ToB trilogy even though there are different game mechanics between PoE1 and PoE2.

All in all I think I'm going to try both BG3 and WoTR next even though I'm not that excited with BG3 based on my own limited experience with it.

 

[Alesia_BH]

But now I'm more interested in playing both PoE and PoE2 in saga style like we play it with BG-SoA-ToB trilogy even though there are different game mechanics between PoE1 and PoE2.

Noted!

The change in mechanics curbed my enthusiasm for the PoE full saga play last time. I could get over that, but there's still the matter of my inexperience with PoE2

Here's an idea. We could set up a thread. You and I could start in PoE. Enuhal, who wants to play PoE2, could start there. We'd all get to play the parts we're interested in right now, and Enuhal's run could serve as a primer for me on PoE2.

Of course, anyone else who wants to join can. I feel like we could find an additional player or two. Not sure.

 

[Serg_BlackStrider]

Nice =) I don't think the change in mechanics is that significant to feel them as completely different games. It didn't take me too long to adapt. Now I'm switching between them without any efforts.
But I do want to finish at least Kingmaker first and this will take a time. With your gaming speed I bet you'll finish your current party run way before I'll finish P:K =)

 

[Alesia_BH]

But I do want to finish at least Kingmaker first and this will take a time. With your gaming speed I bet you'll finish your current party run way before I'll finish P:K =)

There's no rush. Enuhal is down to do this whenever and I am too.

Would you like to take a moment to sell Enuhal on Pathfinder? I would but all I know about it is that you like it. That's enough for me, but Enuhal might benefit from a bit of exposition.

 

[Enuhal]

I am a bit busy until the end of the months, but could certainly start a run as soon as august comes around (and most times after that) - though I would not advise taking any inspiration from any potential PoE2 gameplay of mine. There is literally only 1 party member in the entire game that I feel comfortable saying that I have some kind of handle on, and I don't know a single encounter by heart.

@Serg_BlackStrider Sure, the mechanical differences are not huge, but the balance seemed very different for me. Something that was very painful for me was, for example, the incredible reduction in power for priests, who were in my opinion the most useful class in party-based PoE1 runs and became really clunky and far less powerful in PoE2 in comparison. For my first playthrough, I basically recreated the party I used very successfully for the same run in PoE1, and it turned out extremely poorly, so much that I had to reduce the difficulty level. My second run was more successful, but I had to choose very different class combinations compared to what I'd do in PoE1 to get to that result (and I still felt very awkward using a lot of the characters compared to the familiar feel of PoE1).

 

[Alesia_BH]

There is literally only 1 party member in the entire game that I feel comfortable saying that I have some kind of handle on, and I don't know a single encounter by heart.

Compared to me you're an expert, lol. I've purchased PoE2 but I haven't installed it yet. Plus I trust your ability to figure things out. I'm sure I'd benefit from following your run, even if you haven't sussed everything yet.

If anyone else is interested, let us know, either here or in DM! Meanwhile, our plan will be to wait until August. You and I should both be ready by then, at least.

Cheers!

 

[Serg_BlackStrider]

There is a pretty great PoE2 mechanics guide by @thelee from Obsidian boards which helped me immensely to learn it and adapt quicker.

My core party for PoE2 is exactly the same as for PoE: me as Cipher (Ascendant)/Druid (Lifegiver), Eder (Swashbuckler), Aloth (Wizard), Pallegina (Paladin/Chanter), Xoti (Priest). I even introduce Xoti in PoE1 in place of Durance nowadays. Yes, Priests in PoE2 are nerfed but with spells per encounter rather than per rest she performs as a buff bot effortlessly. I don't like rest often anyway as a rule in all of my games so limited spell's selection in not a problem for me there. I know that you prefer to run custom parties but even with story NPCs PoE2 is manageble on highest difficulties just fine.

 

[Serg_BlackStrider]

Would you like to take a moment to sell Enuhal on Pathfinder? I would but all I know about it is that you like it. That's enough for me, but Enuhal might benefit from a bit of exposition.

I'm not sure that my skills as an advertising agent are all that great but the main selling points of Pathfinder's PC series for me personally are the following:

* I'm a big fan of games with rich and complex mechanics which I love to study, preparate and investigate and Pathfinder is definitely one of those. Alone with a Drakensang saga btw which is not mentioned here but which I also highly recommend.
* Of all those games' mechanics I love the DnD one the most and again Pathfinder is a fork of AD&D 3.5 so that's a big plus for me since I'm not fond of simplifications of later DnD editions.
* Character customization is a key feature, along with an alignment system where a character's alignment can/will change due to player choice. And in Pathfinder that character customization is so rich that it could take a lifetime to explore it in full while a character's alignment changes based on choices is a big part of roleplay.
* Games' Lore is also one of the key features which I pay attention to all the time. And in my subjective opinion the lore in Pathfinder is great, story line is fine at the very least.
* Kingdom management part of Kingmaker is debatable and many players reject or dislike it but for me personally it's fine and I like to pay attention to it.

So all in all from my point of view Pathfinder stands right next to original Baldur's Gate Saga and is a worthy successor to my all time favorite.

 

[Antimatter]

I noticed for some people the Pathfinder games, not BG3, are worthy successors to the original BG games. The players who think that way find the same approach to gaming they used in BG working there, be it the number of details, abilities, classes, builds, risk-minimizing mechanics, etc.

If someone needs to be sold on Pathfinder, look no further than https://tavernrpg.com/threads/pathf...playthroughs-and-minimal-no-reload-thread.21/

From a few comments and reports there, you'll see that the layout is very similar to what you've been used to in BG1&2.

I'll quote a few tweets by Felipe Pepe (this is who he is) below:

 

[Alesia_BH]

@Enuhal Continuing our discussion of divine casters in SCS, sans-Entropy Shield.

You can see the problem in the quadruple mage battle. With just Aerie and Nalia on the field, the enemy mages were full on buff stumped. All they managed to do was toss Emotion at CC, tantamount to nothing. Aerie and Nalia were free to blast away without fear of reprisals. Aerie and Nalia versus the yuan ti mages is a no damage romp, each and every time.

Meanwhile, the instant Alena and Jaheira entered sight range they were targeted with Remove and Breach respectively, losing their buffs, leaving them with no choice but to withdraw. It kind of makes sense to just keep them out of combat all together until the arcane casters are gone.

Given the setup, the logic of holding the divine casters back is sound. That, I suppose, is an argument for installing the Icewind Dale spells component. I'll have to think about it. In the meantime, Alena and Jaheira will have to work around their limitations. I'm okay with that. They're still making their presence felt with their specific protections and summons.

 

[Enuhal]

@Alesia_BH Regarding our Jaheira discussion: I'm certain I won't be able to tell you anything you don't already know - though I do wonder if you're actively progressing her companion quest, because once she has the harper pin, she should be able to get to saving throws (at least vs. spells) that make her involvement in a lot of combat, even when dispelled, a bit more viable.
Yes, without the added IWD spells druids suffer quite a bit thanks to SCS (one of the reasons I always play with them, to balance out the scales as I think arcane spellcasters overshadow their divine counterparts too much otherwise) - it's not even just entropy shield and ISOM, there are a bunch of fun new aggressive tools in the selection.
A move that should still be pretty viable and that I've enjoyed is the use of a group of woodland beings all manually casting confusion with a wizard companion providing greater malison - with a total penalty of 6 to saving throws, if there are 3-5 confusion spells in the air, almost anything that's not innately immune to confusion effects has a decent chance of getting affected, and the big advantage is that even buffed up SCS spellcasters will regularly be confused (as their typical protections don't tend to work against cleric confusion - I think only SI:E actually protects against that (though GOI protects against the greater malison part), aside from magic resistance or innate/item based immunities).

Edit: Well, we posted at the same time

I totally understand your hesitation and risk-avoidance. It's certainly never safe to throw unprotected party members into a group of SCS spellcasters, though I sometimes do so anyway as a somewhat calculated risk when I think that I can overpower their defenses quickly in one way or another. Do you have a specific reason for not using the IWD spell component in general? Just a lack of familiarity or do you think they don't fit in the game or are overpowered?

 

[Alesia_BH]

Noted!

I was using the nymphs earlier, but ever since Minsc caught that Flesh to Stone they’ve been crowded out by Death Wards.

L4 is a bottleneck for us. I’ve been going heavy on specific protections, since I don’t know the scripts. In addition, I like to give Alena and Aerie Holy Power when we have the room.

Based on what I’ve seen so far, I’m comfortable toggling back on our Free Action use- especially since we have Harmony, the Spear of the Unicorn and Arbane. I could see making room for the nymphs again. They’re a fantastic deal, in respect to the spells you get from an L4. V35 mages are pretty aggressive with Death Spell, though. They’re also awkward to manage in the context of a AoE spell heavy strategy.

In any case, thanks! Jaheira appreciates it too. As a matter of fact, she’d like to hire you as her advocate and combat coach, if you have the time.

 

[Alesia_BH]

Do you have a specific reason for not using the IWD spell component in general?

Yes. This is BG, not Icewind Dale. I’ll happily use Icewind Dale spells when I play Icewind Dale.

The other issue is that spells tend to be more powerful in the players hands than the AIs and I don’t allow mods that advantage the player, as a rule. That feels like a cheat to me. I wouldn’t have felt as good about Astrid’s run if I had used the Icewind Dale spells.

Even the Alignment Appropriate Fiends component was a problem for me. Had I known how helpful it would be I would have skipped it