The Adventurer's Lounge: Guidance and Support for Candlekeep Annex Participants- Newbie or Veteran

Talamir

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Interesting that the stun/free action interaction topic came up recently... I had a very smooth sailing no reload run end today much earlier than I'd expected (Bandit Camp) when Venkt stunned my MC with SCS Chromatic Orb (the irony is I was this close to getting him outfitted with Minor Spell Deflection but passed because the previous run through BG1 I ended up rarely ever needing it). To be fair I didn't have access to lvl 4 cleric spells with my highest lvl cleric being 6; MC was buffed with a potion of Freedom and other goodies but I'm 99% sure the Fixpack tweak to Free Action only impacts the divine spell and not similar buffs from other sources.

This got me thinking hard about whether I do want to install that Fixpack option; I actually downloaded the mod and realized:

1. it's been over a decade since I last dl'ed that baby!
2. DLing this reminded me I miss a lot of things about the classic games; at least I had a mod option (EEUITWEAKS/EEUITWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4040 // Spell Books -> Kilivitz's Classic Spellbooks) to revert the spellbook UI to classic appearance, which is a huge improvement over EE's default spellbook (it's nice to be able to tell whether a spell has been cast or not without straining my eyes). Now if only EE/Beamdog gets its act together and fixes creature collison/clumping ... ARRRRRGH.
3. I was reminded what a valuable contribution and good work the crew at G3 have been doing for well over a decade

After all that, after reading the 2e description of the spell and thinking about how it should work, I decided (for now!) not to install this tweak to Free Action... in spite of the loss of the run (and possible similar results in the future). I do have access to a small number of Chaotic Commands scrolls from temples in my EET install; I think MSD and/or dishing out coin for those before critical battles might have to be the way I roll until higher levels, though I wouldn't be surprised if I kick myself for such a decision at some point in the future. :)
 
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Alesia_BH

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775
Makes sense!

The change is consistent with D&D rules. And it is consistent with developer intent, as per David Gaider’s remarks. It’s also eminently playable. My use of the tweak is 95% a personal history thing. At this point, the only issues I have with it gameplay wise are:

1) It makes PW:S even more terrifying in solo play.

2) It overpowers Halflings since they get non-dispellable, non-aura based at will immunity to stun via Mazzy’s sword, while no one else does. With the restored behavior the playing field is leveled a bit since everyone can use the RoFA.

Fyi, in BG1 the Greenstone Amulet is my go-to option for protection against stun
 

Alesia_BH

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775
Hey, all! I have a mystery for you to ponder.

Over on Reddit someone posted a screenshot from Mass Effect. They wanted to know what these things are:
IMG_2444.jpeg

The most popular theory was that they’re references to the markers from Dead Space. That’s wrong. The defining feature of the markers from Dead Space was the helical structure. Neither of these are helixes. The one on the left almost looks like a crude helix, but it’s not. It’s the same shape as the one on the right. It’s just turned to the side.

Here’s my theory: they’re sculptures by Sir Sarles. Mass Effect has multiple BG references, from Chiktikka vas Paus to the space hamster. We know Sir Sarles’s sculptures looked like crude lumps of metal, because the church mistakes the chunk of illithium alloy for a completed Sir Sarles work. The fact that one is presented sideways is an indication that no one really understands these things, just like with Sir Sarles’s pieces.

What do we think? Are these Sir Sarles works? I’m not sure but it’s eminently plausible in my view
 
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Talamir

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14
Hey, all! I have a mystery for you to ponder.

Over on Reddit someone posted a screenshot from Mass Effect. They wanted to know what these things are:
View attachment 10356
The most popular theory was that they’re references to the markers from Dead Space. That’s wrong. The defining feature of the markers from Dead Space was the helical structure. Neither of these are helixes. The one on the left almost looks like a crude helix, but it’s not. It’s the same shape as the one on the right. It’s just turned to the side.

Here’s my theory: they’re sculptures by Sir Sarles. Mass Effect has multiple BG references, from Chiktikka vas Paus to the space hamster. We know Sir Sarles’s sculptures looked like crude lumps of metal, because the church mistakes the chunk of illithium alloy for a completed Sir Sarles work. The fact that one is presented sideways is an indication that no one really understands these things, just like with Sir Sarles’s pieces.

What do we think? Are these Sir Sarles works? I’m not sure but it’s eminently plausible in my view

It's obvious that one of them is the real illithium, the other is the fake. By the way, isn't that Kelddath Ormlyr? *swipes one to melt down for vampires, heads for exit*
 
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m7600

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1,201
I don't know if anyone has brought this up in the past (probably, but I'm too lazy to check), but the Egyptian theme of the vampires in Baldur's Gate 2 is almost certainly a nod towards Anne Rice's books (particularly Queen of the Damned). It's also likely that there's a nod towards goth culture more generally, which has Egyptian references all over the place (i.e., the comic character Death who wears an Ankh necklace, the cover art for the album Vision Thing by Sisters of Mercy, etc.)
 

Enuhal

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Messages
125
Noted!

The change in mechanics curbed my enthusiasm for the PoE full saga play last time. I could get over that, but there's still the matter of my inexperience with PoE2

Here's an idea. We could set up a thread. You and I could start in PoE. Enuhal, who wants to play PoE2, could start there. We'd all get to play the parts we're interested in right now, and Enuhal's run could serve as a primer for me on PoE2.

Of course, anyone else who wants to join can. I feel like we could find an additional player or two. Not sure.

@Alesia_BH @Serg_BlackStrider
Regarding the plan of a PoE/Deadfire thread: I know you're propably both not ready for that yet (since Alena still has the SoA finale and the entirety of ToB to do), but since I've finished by last BG run and don't really want to start a new one right now, I have been getting very interested in starting Deadfire (in fact, I've already started some testing to see if playing on PotD is an option for me (it is, though it took me about 10 reloads to find a working strategy for the starting island) and I've even started a small practice run in the meantime so I've got something to do while listening to podcasts, though that one has ended in death by now (I blame my lack of game knowledge - don't trust the quest level indicators, and don't trust the wiki!). Would you be upset if I already started a thread and started posting a little bit right now?
 
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Sure thing go ahead, @Enuhal! I'm currently at the final stage of PF:K, but with my playing pace and considering that I'm on a vacations right now till September, I guess, it will take something like a month to finish it, so there aren't any reasons to wait for me to join. Looking forward to follow your run and maybe will be able to give you some insights! :)
 

Antimatter

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Borco

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Hey everyone!

With reference to my ongoing run, I'd like to consult @Alesia_BH (mainly by cross-checking this with the approach adopted by your bounty hunter Alesia in the past) and others on certain aspects of using bounty hunter's Maze traps against enemy mages.

From what I've observed so far, the behaviour in my install (BG2EE + SCSv34.3) is as follows:
  • While mazed, the timer of the mage's buffs is on hold. For now, this is more of an impression rather than something supported by testing and data, however the difference could be meaningful when it comes to short duration protections such as PfMW/Mantles/etc.
  • When the mage returns from the maze, all of his/her buffs (no exception) take maybe a second to get reactivated.
  • Most times, I've found this gap too short to be able to squeeze in a backstab even with a very fast weapon (maybe it just needs more practice and better coordination), however normal snares seem to be able to strike in time before the buffs kick back in.
  • If the distance that the trap projectile has to travel is sufficiently short (especially when planting the snares precisely at the mage's position), the incoming mage gets exposed to the trap's full damage (missile + poison + forced save vs. death or be killed) without any protections whatsoever.
  • Consequently, one or two snares are usually enough to take out any mage at this stage of the game.
I admit that I'm not sure whether to embrace this as part of the class or whether to qualify it as an exploit, so that's why I'd be keen to hear your views.

On one hand side, it's certainly a questionable way of bypassing arcane protections (which arguably constitute one of the main challenges of the game tactic-wise), especially when paired with the fact that the trap offers no save and bypasses MR.

On the other hand, I can see some justification for the behaviour on roleplaying grounds, whereby the mage could indeed need a short time to gather his concentration after being spewed out from the Maze. Admittedly, it can be challenging to focus on anything when, after spending some time in an inter-dimensional vacuum, you suddenly find yourself back in the Material Plane right on top of a deadly trap. The element of surprise is presumably further emphasized by the fact that, given how the tossed special traps work, to them the Maze would have come out of nowhere.

Bonus question: I've already seen an Otiluke special snare bounce from a Physical Mirror back to my bounty hunter, which presently makes me seriously terrified of clerics because a bouncing Maze would mostly likely mean the end of the run (and I've already burned one of the two ProMagic scrolls). I may need to do some testing here, but I've been curious whether you might have any prior experience with this interaction.

Thank you,

B.
 
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Messages
101
While I can't comment on most of those traps' behaviours since I never use my party thieves other than open locks, find/disarm traps and detect illusions here are my thoughts on the matter nonetheless:

While mazed, the timer of the mage's buffs is on hold. For now, this is more of an impression rather than something supported by testing and data, however the difference could be meaningful when it comes to short duration protections such as PfMW/Mantles/etc.
I think this is not as it should be - a character under the Maze effect is not a subject for Time Stop for their buffs.
When the mage returns from the maze, all of his/her buffs (no exception) take maybe a second to get reactivated.
I guess this is some kind of engine limitation. So personally I'd avoid to utilize this in my advantage (like I never attack my foes before their pre-buffs are fully fired). While you can legitimately interrupt a mage breaking their concentration on casting spells there are no such things as concentration on maintaining buffs in DnD edition BG1/2 are based on, so I can't see a justification for myself to utilize this behaviour.
 
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Alesia_BH

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Messages
775
With reference to my ongoing run, I'd like to consult @Alesia_BH (mainly by cross-checking this with the approach adopted by your bounty hunter Alesia in the past) and others on certain aspects of using bounty hunter's Maze traps against enemy mages.
Hey there, hi there, Borco! I'm not feeling well, atm, so my brain isn't running at peak efficiency. I think I can cover this, though.
From what I've observed so far, the behaviour in my install (BG2EE + SCSv34.3) is as follows:
  • While mazed, the timer of the mage's buffs is on hold. For now, this is more of an impression rather than something supported by testing and data, however the difference could be meaningful when it comes to short duration protections such as PfMW/Mantles/etc.
  • When the mage returns from the maze, all of his/her buffs (no exception) take maybe a second to get reactivated.
  • Most times, I've found this gap too short to be able to squeeze in a backstab even with a very fast weapon (maybe it just needs more practice and better coordination), however normal snares seem to be able to strike in time before the buffs kick back in.
  • If the distance that the trap projectile has to travel is sufficiently short (especially when planting the snares precisely at the mage's position), the incoming mage gets exposed to the trap's full damage (missile + poison + forced save vs. death or be killed) without any protections whatsoever.
  • Consequently, one or two snares are usually enough to take out any mage at this stage of the game.
I've never run a bounty hunter in the EE. In my classic runs mages always came back unbuffed, probably due to an engine limitation. I always felt comfortable trapping them, backstabbing them, etc on return because I wasn't aware that it could work any other way.
I admit that I'm not sure whether to embrace this as part of the class or whether to qualify it as an exploit, so that's why I'd be keen to hear your views.

On one hand side, it's certainly a questionable way of bypassing arcane protections (which arguably constitute one of the main challenges of the game tactic-wise), especially when paired with the fact that the trap offers no save and bypasses MR.

On the other hand, I can see some justification for the behaviour on roleplaying grounds, whereby the mage could indeed need a short time to gather his concentration after being spewed out from the Maze. Admittedly, it can be challenging to focus on anything when, after spending some time in an inter-dimensional vacuum, you suddenly find yourself back in the Material Plane right on top of a deadly trap. The element of surprise is presumably further emphasized by the fact that, given how the tossed special traps work, to them the Maze would have come out of nowhere.
If the EE has implemented buff recovery, ideally one would respect that. In theory mages should return buffed and the clock should keep running while they're mazed. Approximating the theoretically correct behavior is the most respectable move here. That said, it's your game, and I doubt anyone has sufficiently strong opinions on the matter to judge you for it. If it's immersion breaking or simply unfun to wait, feel free to do as you please.
Bonus question: I've already seen an Otiluke special snare bounce from a Physical Mirror back to my bounty hunter, which presently makes me seriously terrified of clerics because a bouncing Maze would mostly likely mean the end of the run (and I've already burned one of the two ProMagic scrolls). I may need to do some testing here, but I've been curious whether you might have any prior experience with this interaction.
I was planning to bring this up even before I saw the questions, lol. The engine treats Maze Trap projectiles like conventional projectiles, arrows and the like. If you bounce a Maze Trap off a Physical Mirror you'll maze yourself and the game will end. Be very, very careful using your maze traps around high level clerics. The Reflex will protect you but the projectile will continue to bounce back and forth between the two surfaces. If you unequip The Reflex before Physical Mirror expires, you'll be mazed.

NW: SCS's Revised Handling of Death Effects component may change this, but Maze isn't explicitly mentioned in the Read Me and I haven't tested.
 
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Borco

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286
@Alesia_BH Bummer. I'm sorry to hear that - get well soon!

And thank you for chipping in. Very helpful as always!

It's the Stoneskins that are the biggest hurdle for thieves to fight against. They can usually wait out everything else and dispel the illusions with DI, but the skins will stay there (I know you can wait out the Stoneskin timer as well, lol, but let's park that into the hardcore section). That's why this cheesy approach is so appealing in way.

I think that I'm leaning towards some sort of a middle ground approach whereby only Time Stop Traps and Spike Traps would occasionally be permitted to be used in this manner. The Spike Traps are already kind of broken by being power level 0 and everything, so anyway the only way of protecting against them would be Pro Magic Energy (if the mage would be running that then it would be a no-go). In general, we'll try to rely more on Dispel Arrows to deal with the skins. But let's see.

B.
 
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