The Music Thread

[m7600]

Ok, and that's kind of how I took it. So, it has nothing to do with Pink Floyd artistically and entirely due to Lydon just wanting to be controversial for its own sake. That's what I figured.

I wouldn't say that it has nothing to do with Pink Floyd. Surely it has something to do with it, though not everything. The style of one band is the complete opposite of the other. I don't think that's a coincidence. It seems deliberate. Not in the sense that the Pistols could have played at the same level of musicianship, since they objectively couldn't. But they embraced their shittiness and were unapologetic about it.

But, that's not how I see punk music. It can be simplistic and shitty, but it can also be (perhaps) primal but with quality musicianship. Fear did that with "NY is Alright if You Like Saxaphones". Bad Brains did it with "Don't Need It" (Dr. Know is kind of a guitar virtuoso). It doesn't have to be polished to have good musicianship. They are playing "dirty" but well. Blink-182, frankly, is simplistic and shitty. The Dead Milkmen are kinda brilliant.

I'd argue that punk with quality musicianship isn't strictly punk, it's a crossover with something else. Ska punk would be the prime example. The musicianship there comes from the ska element, not the punk element. Bad Brains is a more intriguing case, but I'd argue that they're not a purely punk rock band. They're partly punk, partly some other genres. And the quality of their musicianship comes from those other genres, not from punk. But I don't mean any of this in an authoritative way. It's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

Ok, but I apparently still don't know what dad rock means. Tell me.

If you're asking seriously instead of being cheeky, then I'd say that there's not much to it. It's rock that parents listen to. It was cool when said parents were young, and now their kids find it corny. Old timer's music. Allow me to quote The Simpsons on this:

True story. This past week or so, my wife started pressuring me to get back into music. Our oldest is starting to get into music and she wants me to take charge of shaping his musical tastes. I get it, she's not wrong, but I'm not totally on board with the idea. I don't really want to do music unless I'm playing with a band, and if I'm going to get into it, I want to do something different style-wise (even a different instrument). I also am not really inspired to write anything. In any event, I may likely end up being the only middle-aged person who starts a band a) not really of my own free will, and b) not due to any kind of mid-life crisis. After your comment, I've at least come up with a band name: "This is Not a Mid-Life Crisis".

I recently got back into music. I was in a rock band when I was younger, before becoming a parent. Now I've started a solo project just as a hobby. I'm using free software like TuxGuitar, Guitarix, Hydrogen Drum Machine, and Audacity, just to mess around. It's actually a lot of fun. You should definitely give it a try.

I haven't seen that from him in the two videos you've shown. It just seemed like pop culture punditry. But, I haven't really looked into his other material so grain of salt and all that. When it comes to music, I'm more interested in the artistic than the cultural side, though, and basically lose interest when pop culture factors come into play. The inspiration (lyrically and instrumentally) for The Mars Volta's first two albums is riveting to me. "The Rise and Fall of Bowling for Soup", not so much.

Well, in his defense, he has videos about hardcore, death metal, black metal, and slam, among other underground genres, so there's that. Though I find his videos on pop culture more interesting, since it's not something that I usually dwell on.

 

[m7600]

And not to be obnoxious or anything, but you might find this interview that Finn did with Fat Mike from NOFX interesting. I posted it in the Funny Videos Thread a while back, since I got a good laugh from it, but it's pretty insightful as well.

 

[JustKneller]

I'd argue that punk with quality musicianship isn't strictly punk, it's a crossover with something else.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Frankly, though, I think there are too many labels and they don't serve a purpose. People focus too much on the wrapper and not enough on the content.

If you're asking seriously instead of being cheeky, then I'd say that there's not much to it. It's rock that parents listen to.

I wasn't being cheeky. I even googled it to better understand, but didn't find a consistent answer. So, all music eventually becomes "parent music"? I'm not sure if there is any value or merit to the concept. If we're going to categorize older music, I'd rather it be on the grounds of what has stood the test of time than merely it's age.

I'm using free software like TuxGuitar, Guitarix, Hydrogen Drum Machine, and Audacity, just to mess around. It's actually a lot of fun. You should definitely give it a try.

The big selling point for music, for me, was always the people. My first band was literally just a house band for our friends' party house. We practiced a fair bit, recorded next to nothing, and spent a lot of time playing live. But, maybe at this age, the software is the way to go.

And not to be obnoxious or anything, but you might find this interview that Finn did with Fat Mike from NOFX interesting.

Definitely not obnoxious. I really appreciate the dialogue, even in the areas we disagree. I just watched the video. This is perfect, I think. It's giving me a better picture of the guy. He definitely is more scene-oriented, though. I disagree with a number of things (e.g. Sublime is the greatest ska band?), but Pantera is his favorite band, he hates Metallica (I can respect that) and Mike's "test" was great. I got some laughs out of it, too.

 

[m7600]

Well, like you said, we'll have to agree to disagree on some of the finer points. That doesn't preclude agreement upon other points, as we do seem to see at least some things in the same way.

So what's the greatest ska punk band, in your opinion? My vote is for these guys:



That's one thing that I think Finn does get terribly wrong. He doesn't really seem to know anything about third-world ska punk bands, and how militant some of them are, both from an ideological as well as a practical standpoint.

 

[JustKneller]

So what's the greatest ska punk band, in your opinion? My vote is for these guys:

I've never heard of them, but it's hard to top that. The only other ska band I know from outside the U.S. is these guys:



Granted, it's about a drunken hookup, but I find some parts of the composition to be interesting.

So, being that my knowledge of ska bands is limited to the American ones, I would actually give the gold medal to Mephiskapheles. They really dug in and devoted both their composition and image to opposing the saccharine version of ska the major labels were putting out there. But they didn't just repeat themselves with their follow up albums. All three have a very different compositional character, and none of them conform to mainstream ska. I don't think brass is required for a ska band, but I grew up around enough Spanish music that I feel like it always adds to the experience. Also, despite the organ not being a traditional ska instrument, they used it strategically and well. Like, they really knew what they were doing. So, they weren't just opposed to major label ska, they knew how to oppose it well. I wish I could write music as well as they did.

 

[m7600]

I've never heard of them

Few people have, outside of Argentina.

This other one is from Spain. They're pretty good. You might dig what they do, if you haven't heard of them:

 

[m7600]

Here's another one that you might like:

 

[m7600]

Not strictly ska, but a bit ska-adjacent

 

[WiseGrimwald]

One of the many genres of music that I enjoy.

devil gate drive - Search Videos

www.bing.com

 

[JustKneller]

Speaking of music, since we've been talking music in this thread, I've been listening to things as I've been posting. Often times, my three-year old will sit in my lap and take my headphones to listen while I type. Because of this, I've discovered he likes punk music. This is what he's listening to right now (and dancing to it):

 

[m7600]

@JustKneller just to piss you off:



Nah, I'm joking. I don't want to test your patience with yet another video from Finn, but this one really encapsulates why I like his takes on pop culture.

 

[JustKneller]

@m7600

So, I just spent the last 45 minutes or so drafting a thoughtful response to your post having watched the video. During this time, my three-year old was listening to music while sitting on my lap. I was literally about to click reply when he shifted himself, the headphones fell off his head, which hit my keyboard and closed out the window. For some reason, a draft didn't save and I lost the whole thing. Kids, am I right?

In any event, you're definitely not pissing me off at all. It's a good conversation. However, I'm now going to drop the abridged edition of what I just wrote because I don't have time to do it all again.

1) I actually agree with this video. I think rock is at a disadvantage because one of its cultural touchstones is being anti-establishment. Hip-hop, on the other hand, is all about the paper. So, hating major labels and commercial success comes with the territory.

2) It isn't always the label. Metallica did their best stuff with Megaforce before they signed with Elektra, but they were never really that great. They were quick to become RIAA posterboys, which I'm sure brought some negative retroactive lableling, but they were starting to decline with the black album years before. Megadeath was major label pretty much since the beginning and they have far stronger musicality across the board. Blink-182 did ok because they were pop when they were indie, so they didn't have to sell out, they just kept doing what they were doing. I would actually say that Blink's artistic integrity tracks well. They were a few white kids from the suburbs with relatively few struggles who wrote fun music without a lot of depth. That adds up. Both No Doubt and Save Ferris spent proportionately a similar amount of time on a major label. No Doubt was more commercially successful, but they also changed their style dramatically (towards pop). Gwen Stefani meandered around ska, pop, and hip-hop. I'm sure she was just trying to work for a living.

3) It's not always the label that's the problem. Some folks are artists, others are performers just looking for the opportunity to "sell out" in whatever genre will take them (cough...Machine Gun Kelly...cough). So it goes.

4) I probably agree with Finn more than I disagree, but his content doesn't resonate for me that much because I don't care about scene. This is like your thread about "Do you identify as a gamer". I do because being a gamer can mean a myriad of things and I'm not pigeonholed into any ideologies. However, I don't identify as a rocker, even though rock makes up a majority of my musical tastes and inspiration. My punk friends might have thought I was soft because I liked the Postal Service. My metalhead friends might have thought it was blasphemous when a bluegrass/polka band covered Pantera's Cemetery Gates, even though I thought it was a clever arrangement. I think Mephiskapheles is the greatest ska band ever, and Black Dots is the best punk album ever (even though none of my favorite Bad Brains songs are on it, ironically). This is freedom, too.

5) I think Finn's content would be significantly different if he knew music more (artisically as opposed to scene). Or, maybe he does and he just doesn't care. Or maybe he knows that he can get more viewers focusing on the more digestable cultural side. I'm not hating on the guy for it, but it's just not the kind of stuff I look up on YouTube.

And now for something completely different...

I fucking love these guys for this (as well as their cover of Such Great Heights). This is such a brilliant arrangement and I sometimes wonder whatever happened to them (this was 15 years ago).

 

[m7600]

Well, I finally got around to watching Lords of Chaos. I get what they were trying to do. It's not supposed to be a documentary, like Until The Light Takes Us. And while the idea might have made sense on paper, the film ended up being mediocre.
There's movies like Plan 9 From Outer Space which are so bad that they end up being hilarious, and hence unintentionally good. Unfortunately, that's not the case with Lords of Chaos. It's not bad enough to be funny, but it's not good enough to be recommendable. The message it tries to convey essentially boils down to "Here's a group of stupid teenagers, look at the shocking things that they did."

 

[JustKneller]

It's not bad enough to be funny, but it's not good enough to be recommendable.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll be sure to pass on it.

 

[m7600]

 

[m7600]

I used to watch a bit of battle rap a few years ago. Here's one of my favorite battles, Charlie Clips vs Iron Solomon

 

[JustKneller]

Sorry, best rap battle ever right here.

 

[m7600]

Sorry, best rap battle ever right here.

My favorite one from ERBoH is this one:

 

[JustKneller]

My favorite one from ERBoH is this one:

I mean, Tolkien obviously won that one.

Then again, maybe I'm a little biased.

 

[m7600]

No, you're right, Tolkien absolutely murdered that fool (I'm biased as well though). His opponent did get a few good bars in there (i.e., accusing Tolkien of having a hairy foot fetish lol. That was fire ). But overall, Tolkien buried him.