Thunderstruck! Blind playthrough of Arcanum

JustKneller

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October 24, 1885

It took longer than I thought to sort out the issues with the Shrouded Hills mine. However, it was worth the time to save such a valuable place. I can only hope the humans have learned from their mistakes and will treat it better in the future. While in Tarant, I met Magnus, another Dwarf. He also has an inquiry for P. Schuyler and Sons over a piece of jewelry. We decided to join forces, as our aims were quite similar. However, we reached a dead end rather fast. The staff at P. Schuyler and Sons refused to speak with us, regardless of our tact. It is of little matter. We have other pursuits. Magnus is a talented craftsman, much like any Dwarf. He is skilled in the more traditional craft of metalworking and has also branched into mechanical creations.

My lodgings have become my de facto workship. Fortunately, my electrical experiments are not terribly loud or messy, so I can work without disturbing the other patrons of the inn. I recently developed a rod that can store electricity and discharge it against a struck foe. I think, if I experiment some more, I can develop this into a weapon that can project the electricity much like a firearm. I found schematics in Tarant for just such a thing, but some of the components exceed my current knowledge. I will keep at this, though. I am sure I will get there.

Magnus, of course, needs a proper smithy for his trade. We have an agreeable acquaintance in the form of an half-orc blacksmith across the road from the inn. He is graciously sharing his workspace with Magnus, though the help Magnus has given the orc with his own work is worth more than rent. In the process, he has crafted fine swords for our company. Jayna has found a way to pursue her craft in Black Root by seeking mentorship from the local herbalist. Even Sogg has kept himself busy, albeit in his cups at the tavern next door. Still, his tab is only a minor expense for our company, and he has yet to start any trouble, so this is as good as can be expected for his kind.

Our only companion who has not found his stride is Virgil. His mentor left him a telegram in Tarant with little to go on and the dead end at P. Schuyler and Sons was discouraging. While the rest of us has found ways to occupy our time, he mostly idles away the day. I have recently decided a new tact for our company. With our coffers reasonably full and ourselves better equipped, we will have another run at P. Schuyler and sons. An elxir from Jayna may help us with the diplomatic approach, and the new swords from Magnus will come in handy should diplomacy fail.


I really mucked up my time management here and traveled far more than I needed, had I thought things through better.

The first thing I did in Tarant was buy a smoking jacket from the tailors (for the reaction bonus) and get training (with an elixir of persuasion) from Madam Lil (for +1 Follower). From there, the party wandered about the town to get their bearings and chat up some of the local folks (picking up some XP and coin along the way).

I didn't get much done around town before picking up Magnus. The party had a bash at P. Schulyer and Sons, but they couldn't get past the desk staff. I think Tiernon needs more persuasion, but he used his one elixir at Madam Lil's. There were two more back in Black Root, though. By the trip back Magnus and Tiernon became fast Dwarven friends. Tiernon made Magnus two charged rings and Magnus let Tiernon "borrow" his grandfather's gauntlets. Honest! You can ask him yourself!

Tiernon hit level 8 during this time and could make Charged Staves. However, Magnus could make the far superior Balanced Sword. I found schematics for both the Tesla Gun and Bullets upon the return to Tarant. After buying them, the party had a whole 19 coin to share. To add insult to injury, I discovered that the Tesla Gun requires a Looking Glass Rifle, which is the Gun Smithy 5 weapon. I looked it up on the wiki, and pretty sure I can get one without building the skill, but I'm just as sure that I'll have to murder/steal for it, so that's not happening.

About this point, I would be questioning all my life choices and then rebuilding my character from scratch. Except, I planned some wiggle room to screw up. The build I have in mind is 55 points, which means I have 9 points for a buffer. I wasn't planning to rush the Tesla Gun after the Tesla Rod anyway. Instead, I was going to wait a while until I had amassed a stockpile of ammo for it (and the Tesla Rod started hitting soft) and maxed out Firearms. Eventually, five of those buffer points will go into Gun Smithy and I'll still have my Tesla Gun.

Virgil and Magnus clearly don't like each other, but Virgil is taking it too far. He will cast until he passes out trying to heal me (despite my TA blocking it most of the time). However, he won't lift a finger to help Magnus unless he's critical. The party is well off on healing salves for now, but still, the least he can do is spread out the free healing as he's only in the party for story points (otherwise, I'd drop him back in Shrouded Hills).

As you can see from the date above, the team was a little sidetracked. I went back to Black Root for the potion, but opening up access to charged staves made me want to make one. It cost less than 50 coin for the materials (and I already had extra staves on hand from replacing everyone's weapons with balanced swords) and the local general store took it off my hands for almost 900 coins! I had a bash at a flow specktrometer and that also sold for around 100 coin over the material cost. I could even turn a bit of a profit on charged rings. This is a massive difference from when I tried to punt mechanical swag on the last run. In any event, my money problems are solved (and by extension, ammunition). I was so psyched over the sale that I sprung for train tickets (375 coin!) for everyone to return for Tarant.

There were two things I wanted to do in Tarant. First, I wanted to pick up an explosives manual so I could craft bullets. Second, I had totally forgotten about the Shrouded Hills mine and wanted to cinch up everything pre-Tarant before pushing forward. All the faffing about with this burned a lot of in-game time, hence the date above. I can finally get back on track, though.

At this point, the mine is sorted and I can focus just on business in Tarant.
 
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WarChiefZeke

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I need a new concept for this character, though. It can be pretty much the same story, except for the sharpshooter bit. Instead, Tiernon Thunderstruck was cut out for management (Persuasion +2) and planning to get into the clan's business (Electrical +2) when his illness bankrupted them. Now, he's hustling (+1 DX) out in the world to drum up new opportunities to restore his clan. Yeah, that tracks. 😁

I always liked Electricity and Smithing as Dwarven technologies. Later on go into mechanical. Early on you can have charged rings and balanced sword, good enough. Later on you can craft robots to do your fighting for you, don a healing jacket, wear a helmet that reflects bullets, etc. The Tesla Gun can surely be useful for a companion, if you aren't a sharpshooter yourself.

I know the feeling of wanting to restart your character halfway through. When I discovered the Old Gods of Arcanum on this playthrough, I knew I wanted to play a devotee of the ancient religions. I think it makes an interesting contrast to the "savior of the Panarii religion" position they place you in.
 
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JustKneller

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January 9, 1886

I have finally found the owner of this blasted ring but this only marks the beginning of this business and not the end. The owner of the ring is none other than Gilbert Bates. Even more outlandish, the “gnome” who passed it to me was allegedly a Dwarf who shaved his beard as part of a disguise. I say “allegedly” because I am still not entirely convinced one of my people would ever do such a thing under any circumstances. Mr. Bates has asked us to investigate the mines of the Black Mountain Clan. In truth, I would like to just be done with this affair so I can focus on my technological studies. However, this mysterious order of assassins still has me in their sights. Not to mention, this matter is not resolved for Virgil. I somehow feel a modicum of responsibility for the misguided chap. At least, I need to see him back to his mentor, who can take over from there. It seems we have the Black Mountain Clan mines in our future.


This can't be good. I've run through Tarant and made it as far as Bates giving me the BMC quest and Tiernon is only level 11. This is actually two levels lower than Irvine was at this point. This party does have a little more going for it than it did with Irvine, though. Everyone has Chapeaus of Magnetic Inversion (+20 DR) which should at least slow down a first round TPK. Tiernon has a better weapon (Marksman's rifle compared to Irvine's revolver). On the other hand, most of the crew still has only leather armor. Because of everyone's (except for Sogg's) strength, I can't really move up to basic plate. The weight would slow them down to no end. Even for Sogg, basic plate (along with his other gear) would put him at encumbered. The next (and possibly final) step for armor is probably featherweight chain, but that's not happening until I build smithy myself.

I didn't want to go to the BMC like that, so I spent some time merchant-cycling in Tarant to ensure everyone was set up with a “standard loadout”. Balanced sword, leather armor, chapeu of magnetic inversion, war gauntlets, metal boots, two charged rings, and an electric lamp. Additionally, I ran through the other vendors to build a charged staff, extra chapeau of magnetic inversion, and flow spektrometer every day. I was able to sell these for around 1500 coins per day. I also bought up any electrolyle solution from the herbalist. It's not the most common of things, but essential for tesla weapon ammunition. By the time I was finished with this, the company was up to around 25,000 coin.

Something interesting happened during this venture. The blacksmith sold a schematic for a pyrotechnic axe. I was hoping a charged sword schematic would pop up in their inventory so I could upgrade everyone's balanced blades. It happened at one point before I needed it and I should have bought it then. Nevertheless, it never came back but I did get the pyro axe. Magnus was literally one level away from being able to craft feather-weight axes. I still had the wolf cave and might be able to grab that level before the BMC. However, did I want to take my pyro axes to the BMC to get bashed up by ore golems? Balanced swords were a dime a dozen whereas I only had four units of dwarven ore for feather-weight axes to my name. I'm guessing there was more ore to be found in the mine, but I'm not sure I wanted to bank on that.

I gave it a good deal of thought and decided to push for the next level before the BMC. If I don't find more Dwarven ore in the mine, then it has to be right around the corner. If not, I'll have to hope the axes will hold out (using local repair vendors) until more ore comes up.

I completed the Wolf Cave, but it didn't get me to the next level. So, I had a go at Liam's portal and surprisingly did quite well. This also landed me on the next level where I discovered that Mangus' leveling scheme on the wiki is a lie. He should get Smithy 3 right after Melee 3 (the latter of which he has). However, he didn't pick up Smithy 3 this level..

No matter, the team did much better than I expected with the portal so I gave each of them an extra sword (for when/if their current one breaks against an ore golem) and decided to head off to the mine. I was tempted to take over Liam's Workshop as my new base at this point. After thinking about it, I decided to remain with the room in Black Root. The only advantage to the workshop was extra containers (which I don't really need). Meanwhile, when/if a ship comes into play, Black Root would be even more convenient.
 

JustKneller

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I am so pissed off at myself right now. Long story short, I went to Ashbury for the firearms master and figured I'd pick up Dogmeat Worthless Mutt while I was there. I'm not sure what happened. I think you need to make a beeline for the dog right when you get off the train because I wandered around a bit to look for him (I knew he was in Ashbury, but I don't know where anything is in Ashbury) and by the time I found him, he was already dead. The thing I'm pissed at myself about is that I don't have a save from before arriving in Ashbury to try again. I also don't have a way to raise him. My TA is so high I can't buy a raise dead scroll from the magic shop. Nobody is selling tech-resurrect. There's literally no way to save this dog.

I know it's just a character in the game, but I do still feel like I killed a dog through my own negligence. I'm on the fence right now, considering starting over, playing the exact same, and then picking up the play log when I get to where I left off. Or, I can take my lumps and move on. Trying to do this without spoiling myself on future content, but judging from the sidebar list of locations on gamebanshee, I'm less than 1/3 of the way through at this point. And, I only started this playthrough less than a week ago (but I've had a lot of time to game because I was off work).

I'm going to have to think about this.
 

Skatan

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"'m not sure what happened. I think you need to make a beeline for the dog right when you get off the train"

Yes, that's precisely what one should do. You have some time to get there before the dog dies, but it's best to not wander. It's a bit meta, you kinda have to know about it or be extremely lucky to find the dog in time yourself.

There's a guy there that is kicking the dog to death. He is a lousy kicker but after a while the poor dog is murdered.
 

JustKneller

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Yes, that's precisely what one should do. You have some time to get there before the dog dies, but it's best to not wander. It's a bit meta, you kinda have to know about it or be extremely lucky to find the dog in time yourself.
I think it's definitely a meta thing, or just obscene luck to happen across that location (which is a little out of the way) first thing. I'm trying not to spoil myself with the wiki (just looking up things like basic mechanics, stats of crafted items, and only names/locations/alignment of companions, and then figuring out how to actually do things in play. However, when I went to the location and only found the dog's body, I had to spoil myself on that one. When I got there, the gnome wasn't even there. It was just some random dead dog's body labeled "Worthless Mutt". That's pretty harsh.
 

JustKneller

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I tried to grind on and play through, but my conscience got the better of me. Fortunately, a massive tech issue shut me down at work yesterday, so I started a new game to see how far I could get (no faffing around and just running through what I've run through already). I actually managed to get pretty far making a beeline for my current point. Not only that, but I happened to stumble across a massive chunk of Tarrant sewer I had missed before. Like five levels of XP massive. Unfortunately, the pyro axe didn't pop up with the blacksmith. However, I still need to grind out a few more balanced blades for backups before I go to BMC, so I might get lucky.

I'll be damned if I don't save that dog.
 

JustKneller

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August 13, 1885

I had a horrible dream that I finished our expedition to the mines and then went to Ashbury to find the Master of Firearms for training. While I did ultimately receive the training, I also came across the body of a dog that appeared to have been kicked to death. I felt pity for the poor creature and wished that I could have helped it. So troubled was I from this dream that I decided to head to Ashbury before the Black Mountain Clan Mines. It might be of benefit to have this training before going to the mines anyway. Not that I expected to find anything, but I went to the place in my dream where I found the dog. Much to my shock, there was a dog there, barely alive and being kicked to death by a gnome! I ought to have slain the gnome where he stood but my penchant for diplomacy stayed my wrath. I sent the gnome off, had Virgil heal the animal, who then took a liking to our company. With his health restored, he seems to be a hardy beast that will pull his own weight. At the very least, we now have a mascot or totem for good luck. As the gnome was trying to murder the dog due to the dog stealing the meat off the gnome's dinner plate, I will name the creature “Dogmeat” out of spite towards that vile gnome.

As for the Firearms Master, he would not train me as I was not experienced enough. I had expected no less. In truth, finding the master was just a poor excuse to settle my nerves about my dream. That there really was a dog there to be saved has me reeling.


Well, as you can see by my journal date, we have a little retcon action happening. Essentially speedrunning through the game to get back to where I was saved me quite a bit of time. Everything is as it was prior to the mines from my last run. The only major differences are that I don't have the pyro axe schematic, but I do have Dog. One other major difference is that I'm level 15 going to the mines (as opposed to level 12 or 13 from the last run). I just barely hit the marks for the Tesla Rod and I'm packing that. The other run would have been going with just a marksman rifle. All in all, I think I'm better off, even though I lost the pyro axe schematic. It can always spawn again, but there would have been no way to get dog back on that run.

I'm not entirely sure what to do from here, points-wise. I received the Gypsy Blessing, putting my CH at 13. I'm leaning towards the next three levels being CH+3 so I can take on yet another follower. I also want to get my Firearms to 4 (well, 4.5 with a Dwarf) since that means I can get the master training. If I do focus on Firearms, I might drop Jayna after BMC to open up a spot for a better follower. As it stands, she has Herbology/Therapeutics 3. I can just have her make a mess of drugs, drop her, and I'll almost certainly be building Therapeutics myself before too long. To be honest, she's currently my weakest link. She dumps points in Beauty and Perception, but Beauty is pointless on an NPC and she has no Perception skills. Gar brings more to the table, and I'm pretty sure I can recruit Bates' half-ogre guard. Sogg has been my MVP, so I'm liking the half-ogres. Yeah, I'm probably going to both drop Jayna and focus on Charisma for now. Then Gar and a second half-ogre will really ramp up my muscle.

The other thing I'm considering is stealing the Looking Glass Rifle from the Firearms master, just to save myself the 5CP on Gun Smithy. Here's my thought on that. I would be using my Fate point for the steal. The thing is, in tabletop RPGs, using a fate point usually means you're not so much automatically passing a skill check, but that you're making a shift in the story. So, applying this to getting the LGR, I'm spending a Fate point to change the story in that, after getting Mastery training and the master realizing he needs more penance and therefore needs to go back to the monastery, he gives his rifle to our hero to get rid of it as he never wants to see another firearm again. I'm bouncing that around my head and seeing how it sets. If it doesn't feel cheesy, I just may do that.
 

JustKneller

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December 30, 1885

Our expedition to the Black Mountain Clan Mine was a success, though we are quite battered for the venture and I am being generous with my definition of success. The hostile creatures in the mine were quite manageable, but the traps were legion. All we really have to show for it are the ravings of the singular mad dwarf who resides deep in the mine. Apparently, the clan was banished to the penal colony known as the Isle of Despair due to the grievous transgression of their technology falling into human hands. Namely, I speak of the steam engine believed to be invented by our benefactor, Gilbert Bates, but was actually invented by the Black Mountain Clan. We must next travel to this Isle of Despair, and first secure a ship to do so. The quest continues.


OMFG...BMC made me wish I built a trapspringer character, and if I ever solo, I'm doing exactly that. I could have had Magnus build trapspringers, but those devices only work on containers and not the millions of floor traps in the mine. I could have also built a flow specktrometer to find the traps and try to avoid them but that wouldn't stop my NPCs crappy pathing. It didn't make the game more challenging, just really, really, really slow. Walk a few meters, trigger a ton of traps, use Virgil to heal (which takes an eternity because Tiernon's TA is so high), repeat. I could have burned through all my healing salves. Or, I could have made a healing jacket. However, burning through all our healing supplies this early in the game seemed a bad idea. And, healing jackets suck up ammo for my Tesla Rod and heal very little per charge (only 4hp) so that did not seem sensible.

After the mines, the team reported to Gilbert Bates to get the next leg of our journey. I was able to recruit Chukka then. However, his reaction to me is quite low and will only stay in the party if I'm wearing a smoking jacket. I was going to drop Jayna for Gar, but now things are more complicated. I can a) drop Jayna for Gar, but give up armor and stay in the smoking jacket to keep Chukka in the party b) Find Gar, but release him for a fate point, which I can then use to bump up Chukka's reaction and then be able to use armor or c) drop Jayna for Gar, use the one fate point I have to change Chukka's reaction, and then have to get Gun Smithy 5 instead of using my fate point for the Looking Glass Rifle in Ashbury. I'm sure I'll get another fate point somewhere along the way but I don't know when and I don't want to bank on it.

To complicate things further, I was planning to max out my Charisma/Persuasion so I could "collect" every NPC and store them at my home base. If I free Gar for the fate point. I lose him. Then again, I don't really see a point in actually collecting everyone, so maybe I should scrap this idea.

This is where I've left off. I'm currently in Black Root licking my wounds and I'll need to get everyone new armor for the next leg of our journey (merchant cycling in Tarant, which will make us a few bucks). I might tackle Liam's portal, but then it's time to secure a ship. Bates pointed the company to an ex-pirate captain with a ship, so there's some xp potential there, I'm sure. There was also a shipbuilder at the Black Root docks who was “finishing up” a ship. I wonder if I can buy that one and just have my own ship. That would be nice.
 

JustKneller

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So, I'm still working on this run, but I've hit a bit of a glitch (again). I finished the BMC and am heading off to Ashbury to find a boat. While I'm there, I'm trying to do the firearms master quest. For some reason,, the villager that I'm supposed to save seems to be spawning dead which causes me to autofail the quest. Considering I'm a gunslinger, firearms mastery is kind of a big part of the build. I do have some saves from before all this and am trying some things, but I'm wondering if it is somehow a similar deal to the Dogmeat issue where you need to rush this or you just autofail. This is rather annoying and the game is losing points in my book because of it. In any event, I'm still seeing if I can fix it.
 

WarChiefZeke

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So, I'm still working on this run, but I've hit a bit of a glitch (again). I finished the BMC and am heading off to Ashbury to find a boat. While I'm there, I'm trying to do the firearms master quest. For some reason,, the villager that I'm supposed to save seems to be spawning dead which causes me to autofail the quest. Considering I'm a gunslinger, firearms mastery is kind of a big part of the build. I do have some saves from before all this and am trying some things, but I'm wondering if it is somehow a similar deal to the Dogmeat issue where you need to rush this or you just autofail. This is rather annoying and the game is losing points in my book because of it. In any event, I'm still seeing if I can fix it.

The easiest and shortest route to fixing a glitch like this is just to cheat-in a resurrection item, there is a technological version. Quests can be taken out of the failed state if the person in question gets revived. Actually kind of cool, if you have the power naturally.
 

JustKneller

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The easiest and shortest route to fixing a glitch like this is just to cheat-in a resurrection item, there is a technological version. Quests can be taken out of the failed state if the person in question gets revived. Actually kind of cool, if you have the power naturally.
That did the trick. I was much more careful when I approached this time and this time I heard the gunshot that killed the hostage before I even got to the barn. That's pretty cheap-ass, but whatever, I used a raise on them and all's well that ends well.
 
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Skatan

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Never played a gunslinger so never seen that. Sounds kinda annoying tbh, but good you find a way onward anyways. I have a vague memory the debug menu on Virgil has some ways to fix such things, though I have only read lightly on it, which was why I mentioned once it could be good to have that installed. But you found a solution anyways, so it doesn't really matter.

You play TB or rtwp? Not sure I saw you write that, or maybe I just read sloppily.
 

JustKneller

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I don't really have a "journal entry" as this next bit has just been a red herring. It was easy enough to get a ride to the Isle of Despair, but there was nothing much to do there. A couple of side quests and a penal colony leader who told me lol jk on the Dwarven Clan I was sent there to find. It all kind of felt like filler. In any event, I need to find a different Dwarven clan to find the Dwarven clan I'm meant to find.

At this point, I could build the Tesla Gun, but it's ammo consumption is putting me off. I don't have Chemistry 2, yet, so I can't make ammo. Right now, I'm maxing out Charisma so I can pick up one more NPC if someone strikes my fancy along the way. After that, I'm not sure. I could start on Smithy for Featherweight Chain, but really, it's not that much better than regular leather armor. I could do Herbology, but since I can print my own money with electro crafting, I can just buy healing supplies. To be honest, I don't think I need anything more after Cha 20 and Chemistry 2. Any suggestions?
 

WarChiefZeke

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I don't really have a "journal entry" as this next bit has just been a red herring. It was easy enough to get a ride to the Isle of Despair, but there was nothing much to do there. A couple of side quests and a penal colony leader who told me lol jk on the Dwarven Clan I was sent there to find. It all kind of felt like filler. In any event, I need to find a different Dwarven clan to find the Dwarven clan I'm meant to find.

At this point, I could build the Tesla Gun, but it's ammo consumption is putting me off. I don't have Chemistry 2, yet, so I can't make ammo. Right now, I'm maxing out Charisma so I can pick up one more NPC if someone strikes my fancy along the way. After that, I'm not sure. I could start on Smithy for Featherweight Chain, but really, it's not that much better than regular leather armor. I could do Herbology, but since I can print my own money with electro crafting, I can just buy healing supplies. To be honest, I don't think I need anything more after Cha 20 and Chemistry 2. Any suggestions?

Do you have enough smithing to make all the charged equipment? ( sword, shield, etc.) It might come in handy.

After that, i'd go into mechanical and just try to get the robots. Fitting for a dwarf imo
 

JustKneller

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I have no Smithing myself right now, but I have Magnus, who is my balanced sword factory. I also have a charged axe schematic, but I'm not sure it's better than the sword due to the AP cost. I could hunt around for the pyro axe, though.

I was running mechanical on a prior incarnation here. However, a robot army (while interesting) is not how I want to get through the game my first time. My cadre of NPCs are already steamrolling through everything, robots would probably be overkill.
 

WarChiefZeke

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I have no Smithing myself right now, but I have Magnus, who is my balanced sword factory. I also have a charged axe schematic, but I'm not sure it's better than the sword due to the AP cost. I could hunt around for the pyro axe, though.

I was running mechanical on a prior incarnation here. However, a robot army (while interesting) is not how I want to get through the game my first time. My cadre of NPCs are already steamrolling through everything, robots would probably be overkill.

Have you considered throwing? You only need a handful of skillpoints to make it "good enough", and it's a decent support option for a tech melee build.

Also, you're a dwarf, have you considered pumping your CON to 20? ;)

it's a random bit of trivia, but a lot of the pre-generated classes end up with most of their important stats at max close to the end game. I guess it's just something the system expects. Even something like a druid, nature mage and healing focused, ends with 20 STR and CON.
 
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Skatan

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I don't really have a "journal entry" as this next bit has just been a red herring. It was easy enough to get a ride to the Isle of Despair, but there was nothing much to do there. A couple of side quests and a penal colony leader who told me lol jk on the Dwarven Clan I was sent there to find. It all kind of felt like filler. In any event, I need to find a different Dwarven clan to find the Dwarven clan I'm meant to find.

At this point, I could build the Tesla Gun, but it's ammo consumption is putting me off. I don't have Chemistry 2, yet, so I can't make ammo. Right now, I'm maxing out Charisma so I can pick up one more NPC if someone strikes my fancy along the way. After that, I'm not sure. I could start on Smithy for Featherweight Chain, but really, it's not that much better than regular leather armor. I could do Herbology, but since I can print my own money with electro crafting, I can just buy healing supplies. To be honest, I don't think I need anything more after Cha 20 and Chemistry 2. Any suggestions?

I'm no expert on Tech builds, as mentioned, but there's electric and machined plate armors that should be better than normal leather armor. But armor is more important if you run a small crew, since in a big one you tend to get hit a lot less of course.
 
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