Pathfinder: Kingmaker and Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous General Discussion, Playthroughs and Minimal/No Reload Thread
- Thread starter alice_ashpool
- Start date
- Messages
- 1,762
Inspired by this thread, I've decided to experiment and create a Thundercaller. I don't know much about using bards in this game and figured the best way would be to have the main character as a bard. I also plan to try some Multiclass combinations for party members without using the respec mod. The difficulty is modified Normal difficulty (everything is put to 1:1 in terms of party & enemies' damage/to hit chances) with the Death Door condition.
Bronn The Thundercaller started with protecting spells such as Remove Fear, Unbreakable Heart & later Grease (my most favourite lvl 1 spell) and Cure Light Wounds. They were useful right away.
About MC choices: I gave Valerie one level in Thug and will add Dazzling Display later. Amiri will get 2 levels in Fighter for quicker Feat acquirement (I want Cleaving Finish for her). I also plan to make Jaethal another permanent party member (instead of Linzi) and will give her Dazzling Display as well (For Jaethal, I think I'll give her 4 levels in Thug).
The first things I did were taking off the Tower shield and changing it to the Heavy Shield +1 for Valerie and giving Amiri a Glaive (will keep her with long-reach weapons). Octavia's memorized spells include Reduce Person & Enlarge Person.
I already like how being a bard allows me to always have much-needed protection spells ready for every situation (for lvl spell 2 it will include Delay Poison, for example)
Bronn The Thundercaller started with protecting spells such as Remove Fear, Unbreakable Heart & later Grease (my most favourite lvl 1 spell) and Cure Light Wounds. They were useful right away.
About MC choices: I gave Valerie one level in Thug and will add Dazzling Display later. Amiri will get 2 levels in Fighter for quicker Feat acquirement (I want Cleaving Finish for her). I also plan to make Jaethal another permanent party member (instead of Linzi) and will give her Dazzling Display as well (For Jaethal, I think I'll give her 4 levels in Thug).
The first things I did were taking off the Tower shield and changing it to the Heavy Shield +1 for Valerie and giving Amiri a Glaive (will keep her with long-reach weapons). Octavia's memorized spells include Reduce Person & Enlarge Person.
I already like how being a bard allows me to always have much-needed protection spells ready for every situation (for lvl spell 2 it will include Delay Poison, for example)
alice_ashpool
Habitué
- Messages
- 572
going bard means no compulsive Linzi use opening up doing Valerie with Jaethal and Amiri both on reach and you still have room for Harrim/Tristian and Octavia
- Messages
- 1,762
Bronn The Thundercaller. Update 1.
Bronn completed Sycamore! The party handled Grarrukh having just levelled up to lvl 3! That's the earliest I ever could handle this worg.
The Tremendous Centipede gave us our first Death Door. The party was never in real danger, it was just unfortunate the Centipede's poison affected Amiri even while I tried to position her separately from Valerie.
Btw, I was so happy to get Jaethal back. She's not a popular character, and her being undead makes it a bit difficult to heal her, but I like her personality. And because I like her, I try to make her a useful party member. I thought about giving her reach weapons, but it meant her initial Scythe proficiency would go to waste. I like the concept of the undead warrior with a scythe. So RP > effectiveness. I will just try to position and micro-manage her (yes, Enlarge Person doesn't work on undead, so a scythe can't become a long-reach weapon on her).
The Tartuccio fight. Maybe I'm just getting lucky every time here? Again, he hasn't been able to even finish casting his spell. Grease and our characters making a beeline to him finished the fight quickly.
I feel early multiclassing of Jaethal, Amiri and Valerie (and having the main character with all those protection spells available at any time, sorcerer-style) provided immediate benefits and allowed me to do things I couldn't imagine to be so easy before. This is why I'm going to handle Viscount Smoulderburn right after the cave, while the party still has lvl 4.
Bronn completed Sycamore! The party handled Grarrukh having just levelled up to lvl 3! That's the earliest I ever could handle this worg.
The Tremendous Centipede gave us our first Death Door. The party was never in real danger, it was just unfortunate the Centipede's poison affected Amiri even while I tried to position her separately from Valerie.
Btw, I was so happy to get Jaethal back. She's not a popular character, and her being undead makes it a bit difficult to heal her, but I like her personality. And because I like her, I try to make her a useful party member. I thought about giving her reach weapons, but it meant her initial Scythe proficiency would go to waste. I like the concept of the undead warrior with a scythe. So RP > effectiveness. I will just try to position and micro-manage her (yes, Enlarge Person doesn't work on undead, so a scythe can't become a long-reach weapon on her).
The Tartuccio fight. Maybe I'm just getting lucky every time here? Again, he hasn't been able to even finish casting his spell. Grease and our characters making a beeline to him finished the fight quickly.
I feel early multiclassing of Jaethal, Amiri and Valerie (and having the main character with all those protection spells available at any time, sorcerer-style) provided immediate benefits and allowed me to do things I couldn't imagine to be so easy before. This is why I'm going to handle Viscount Smoulderburn right after the cave, while the party still has lvl 4.
alice_ashpool
Habitué
- Messages
- 572
Nice work.
The tremendous centipede fight can be tough - on core i tend to fork out for a delay poison, communal scroll which makes the whole thing much easier. Adding in an Acid resist, communal scroll will make it even more so but money is tight.
also don't forget that the centipedes are immune to shaken status.
good luck with smoulderburn.
The tremendous centipede fight can be tough - on core i tend to fork out for a delay poison, communal scroll which makes the whole thing much easier. Adding in an Acid resist, communal scroll will make it even more so but money is tight.
also don't forget that the centipedes are immune to shaken status.
good luck with smoulderburn.
- Messages
- 1,762
Yeah, I know about the Shaken status - or, rather, learned about it during the fight. I guess I just like to test things natively without much preparation - I could have figured it from looking at immunities but I opted to spend 1 whole round for the unneeded Dazzling Display, heh.
So, the Viscount Smoulderburn. After a few initial rounds where he just spammed Fear (and the party characters, despite Remove Fear, failed vs it) - and it cost us Harrim, we counter-attacked. After I had tossed the Wand of True Strike a few times between Octavia and others, I decided to keep it on Jaethal. Amiri was good enough relying on her own crits there. Valerie just needed to hold the line. I learned that Thunder Call worked vs Smoulderburn (not much damage, but it all adds up). Even Intimidation worked! And I remember that before (after BG) I used to think these creatures were a bit like demiliches. No, they are not undead!
We were so excited that even killed the Shambling Mound as well!
So, the Viscount Smoulderburn. After a few initial rounds where he just spammed Fear (and the party characters, despite Remove Fear, failed vs it) - and it cost us Harrim, we counter-attacked. After I had tossed the Wand of True Strike a few times between Octavia and others, I decided to keep it on Jaethal. Amiri was good enough relying on her own crits there. Valerie just needed to hold the line. I learned that Thunder Call worked vs Smoulderburn (not much damage, but it all adds up). Even Intimidation worked! And I remember that before (after BG) I used to think these creatures were a bit like demiliches. No, they are not undead!
We were so excited that even killed the Shambling Mound as well!
m7600
Habitué
- Messages
- 1,201
Update on my run: Ok, this scene with Octavia was slightly disturbing and creepy. She's essentially committing a sexual assault on my character. I don't know how they do things in Numeria or wherever she's from, but in the Stolen Lands you can't just grab someone's breast without consent. There should have been a fifth dialogue option somewhat like this: "(Lawful Neutral) You do realize you're committing a crime and I could have you arrested, right?"
Urdnot_Wrex
Habitué
- Messages
- 608
Update on my run: Ok, this scene with Octavia was slightly disturbing and creepy. She's essentially committing a sexual assault on my character. I don't know how they do things in Numeria or wherever she's from, but in the Stolen Lands you can't just grab someone's breast without consent. There should have been a fifth dialogue option somewhat like this: "(Lawful Neutral) You do realize you're committing a crime and I could have you arrested, right?"
I guess it's not something you can get arrested for if the other person is wearing armour... I agree it's intrusive, but at least 3 out of 4 possible replies are varying degrees and flavours of saying "no".
- Messages
- 1,762
Bronn The Thundercaller. Update 2.
Bronn cleared almost all side areas before going for the Stag Lord. This adventure provided a few nice and awkward surprises.
We learned that Thunder Call is probably the best way to deal with annoying Spider Swarms (usually, you have to rely on torch attacks and alchemist bottles to deal with them, or Burning Hands).
The Insane Dryad was handled very quickly. Demoralization used by Jaethal before the battle even started paved the way to the Dryad failing the saving throw vs Grease.
The Bear-Like Treant became the first enemy who got not only Shaken because of Demoralization, but also Frightened. This was the end of it, with our attacks of opportunity and Grease also working.
But it couldn't be all smooth in Chapter 1, right? The boggards' cave was painful. First, Valerie got the Death Door condition before even getting to the cave's boss. Second, I didn't want to rest too much (although I could, all I needed to do was just go outside). At that point, it was still unclear if I could finish Chapter 1 in 30 days (which provides a small bonus), so I decided to carry on in the cave, with our spells being more and more depleted after each group of enemies (even using the Rod of Extend, my buffs last for ~5 minutes, which is obviously not enough for the whole area).
So we reached the final encounter there and used wands of Grease, one Web spell left on Octavia, and ranged weapons. The time while the enemies were disabled, was enough to kill all lesser boggards and decrease Boggard Champion's HPs by half. Then he finally got out and, despite us trying to CC him more, he slowly finished all the characters one by one. We were ...||... this close to killing him before he injured Bronn.
I waited for the game over screen but never got it!
Bronn dies
Combat is finished
Combat started
I couldn't believe the log. Then I figured out what happened. Jaethal is an undead. She wasn't "dead". So Golarion's gods declined our overall death and gave us a second chance. This reminded me of Fane's skill in Divinity: Original Sin 2 - Play Dead. "This ability is available to all Undead. It allows a character to play dead - all enemies automatically lose interest in that character and if this was the only character that participated in a fight then this ability ends a battle."
I think what happened was a bug, but I'm totally fine with this RP workaround. I told you, I like Jaethal. During the next round of combat, the Boggard Champion critically missed (lol) vs Amiri, failed his saving throw vs Grease, and was killed by Bronn who used the wand of Magic Missiles.
We used our only Raise Dead scroll on Valerie, rested outside, and continued our adventure. It was clear now we wouldn't be able to finish Chapter 1 in 30 days, but that wasn't important anymore. What was important is that we avoided any reload and discovered that nice little "trick" by Jaethal.
Bronn cleared almost all side areas before going for the Stag Lord. This adventure provided a few nice and awkward surprises.
We learned that Thunder Call is probably the best way to deal with annoying Spider Swarms (usually, you have to rely on torch attacks and alchemist bottles to deal with them, or Burning Hands).
The Insane Dryad was handled very quickly. Demoralization used by Jaethal before the battle even started paved the way to the Dryad failing the saving throw vs Grease.
The Bear-Like Treant became the first enemy who got not only Shaken because of Demoralization, but also Frightened. This was the end of it, with our attacks of opportunity and Grease also working.
But it couldn't be all smooth in Chapter 1, right? The boggards' cave was painful. First, Valerie got the Death Door condition before even getting to the cave's boss. Second, I didn't want to rest too much (although I could, all I needed to do was just go outside). At that point, it was still unclear if I could finish Chapter 1 in 30 days (which provides a small bonus), so I decided to carry on in the cave, with our spells being more and more depleted after each group of enemies (even using the Rod of Extend, my buffs last for ~5 minutes, which is obviously not enough for the whole area).
So we reached the final encounter there and used wands of Grease, one Web spell left on Octavia, and ranged weapons. The time while the enemies were disabled, was enough to kill all lesser boggards and decrease Boggard Champion's HPs by half. Then he finally got out and, despite us trying to CC him more, he slowly finished all the characters one by one. We were ...||... this close to killing him before he injured Bronn.
I waited for the game over screen but never got it!
Bronn dies
Combat is finished
Combat started
I couldn't believe the log. Then I figured out what happened. Jaethal is an undead. She wasn't "dead". So Golarion's gods declined our overall death and gave us a second chance. This reminded me of Fane's skill in Divinity: Original Sin 2 - Play Dead. "This ability is available to all Undead. It allows a character to play dead - all enemies automatically lose interest in that character and if this was the only character that participated in a fight then this ability ends a battle."
I think what happened was a bug, but I'm totally fine with this RP workaround. I told you, I like Jaethal. During the next round of combat, the Boggard Champion critically missed (lol) vs Amiri, failed his saving throw vs Grease, and was killed by Bronn who used the wand of Magic Missiles.
We used our only Raise Dead scroll on Valerie, rested outside, and continued our adventure. It was clear now we wouldn't be able to finish Chapter 1 in 30 days, but that wasn't important anymore. What was important is that we avoided any reload and discovered that nice little "trick" by Jaethal.
alice_ashpool
Habitué
- Messages
- 572
congrats on your coronation m7600
- Messages
- 1,762
Bronn The Thundercaller. Update 3.
A short update. Once we returned to the Oleg's Trading Post, the party reached lvl 5 and thus got a few very useful spells (Harrim finally got access to Animate Dead, Resist Energy Communal, while Octavia now got Glitterdust and Create Pit). Jaethal received the 3rd level in Thug (so her attacks now make enemies Sickened, for further -2 to their saves on top of the Shaken status).
With new spells, dealing with wererats wasn't problematic at all.
The Stag Lord was a joke encounter. I don't think it lasted more than a few rounds.
We finished Chapter 1 in 37 days. When the next Chapter started, the journal showed 40 days until the first Baldhill attack. So if we don't skip any time for kingdom events, we have enough days to substantially increase party members' levels, find good gear and learn some neat spells.
The biggest threat (for this particular party, with this particular approach not to spam-rest) happened in Tranquil River Bend, which @Serg_BlackStrider mentioned earlier. But we managed to avoid even a single reload during the whole chapter.
A short update. Once we returned to the Oleg's Trading Post, the party reached lvl 5 and thus got a few very useful spells (Harrim finally got access to Animate Dead, Resist Energy Communal, while Octavia now got Glitterdust and Create Pit). Jaethal received the 3rd level in Thug (so her attacks now make enemies Sickened, for further -2 to their saves on top of the Shaken status).
With new spells, dealing with wererats wasn't problematic at all.
The Stag Lord was a joke encounter. I don't think it lasted more than a few rounds.
We finished Chapter 1 in 37 days. When the next Chapter started, the journal showed 40 days until the first Baldhill attack. So if we don't skip any time for kingdom events, we have enough days to substantially increase party members' levels, find good gear and learn some neat spells.
The biggest threat (for this particular party, with this particular approach not to spam-rest) happened in Tranquil River Bend, which @Serg_BlackStrider mentioned earlier. But we managed to avoid even a single reload during the whole chapter.
How is your Sorcerer doing?
alice_ashpool
Habitué
- Messages
- 572
Very nice work @Antimatter . 37 days is a pretty good time. It looks like the Boggard cave was the toughest for you, and I agree, doing the overground and underground in 1 go is a real challenge before stag lord and level 5.
Serg_BlackStrider
Habitué
- Messages
- 138
Pretty solid, thank you. Just finished the Troll Trouble atm. with only one death so far (Amiri, while dealing with Boggard Champion).
The progress was like that:
- As usual after Old Sycamore we cleared all available areas sans Ratnook Hill, Tranquil River Bend and Waterlogged Lowland, poisoned the vine stash for the Stag Lord and with nice rolls were able to convince both Akiros and Owlbear to help us defeat the Stag Lord - he had no chance. And if I remember correct we finished the act 1 within 29 days and several hours.
- Act 2: Ratnook Hill > Oleg's TP to hire Bokken as our first Artisan > Tranquil River Bend (Amiri died there due to some pathfinding issues) > A Ford Across the Skunk River > Overgrown Pool > Ruined Watchtower > Bandit Camp > Monster Den > Lone House > Bridge over the Gudrin River (sans Crag Linnorm ofc.). Back to the Capital for some Kingdom management to trigger New Troll Invasion event and Lost Child quest. Then Bald Hilltop > back to the Ford to pick Jubilost > Lone House to save Bartholomew Delgado (he got some hard hits/interrupts so Harrim had to non-stop heal him while we dealt with Trolls) > Ruined Watchtower for Ekun > Kobold Trail > Kobold Camp > Troll Clearing > Dwarven Ruins.
With Troll Trouble dealt with we mostly cleared Swamp Witch's Hut (sans three Greater Enraged Owlbears and Venomhodag x4 at the west side), hired Bartholomew, brought Melianse some Feather Tokens and now chilling in the Capital at the brink of level 8:
Last edited:
- Messages
- 1,762
Glad to hear Grim Face is doing alright. Nice Feats choices! How are you finding your Leopard companion now, on higher levels? Is it still very helpful?
@m7600 Whom does the Queen romance? Octavia, Reg, or both?
Bronn The Thundercaller. Update 4.
We started to explore the surrounding areas and very quickly found ourselves in the Candlemere Tower area. This was a real challenge. I would say that in every battle we felt we had to use absolutely everything we had to survive. When Amiri got Death Door in the first will-o-wisp encounter, we felt the real danger of losing. Fortunately, we had a wand of moderate healing, and remembered to use summons by Harrim.
We didn't have time to get back to the capital, especially since there was no guarantee the next encounter wouldn't bring new Death Doors, so we continued with one character being 1 step safe from getting dead (and Raise Dead scrolls are super-costly, 6k each). That's the additional challenge I like.
Thankfully, now when we knew that we should better trigger hidden wisps by lone Valerie (so that their initial, very hard-hitting chain-lightning-type of attacks didn't affect others), and use Animate Dead right away (Harrim has only 1 memorized at lvl 5), we managed to get through the whole island without any more troubles. Wisps can get sickened, nice.
Just before the final encounter, the party reached lvl 6. This was such a joy! +1 Animate Dead spell for Harrim (this feels so substantial), Jaethal now can inflict Bewildering Injury on anyone she hits, additional spell slots for Octavia!
Duke Dazzleflare felt all the power of our new level. He got intimidated, and the shaken status allowed Stun from Bronn work. We used those 5 seconds to effectively send this Duke to the same plane Viscount now resides in.
Only one area, but it felt so long, difficult and rewarding. I wouldn't recommend the Candlemere Tower area for lvl 5 parties.
@m7600 Whom does the Queen romance? Octavia, Reg, or both?
Bronn The Thundercaller. Update 4.
We started to explore the surrounding areas and very quickly found ourselves in the Candlemere Tower area. This was a real challenge. I would say that in every battle we felt we had to use absolutely everything we had to survive. When Amiri got Death Door in the first will-o-wisp encounter, we felt the real danger of losing. Fortunately, we had a wand of moderate healing, and remembered to use summons by Harrim.
We didn't have time to get back to the capital, especially since there was no guarantee the next encounter wouldn't bring new Death Doors, so we continued with one character being 1 step safe from getting dead (and Raise Dead scrolls are super-costly, 6k each). That's the additional challenge I like.
Thankfully, now when we knew that we should better trigger hidden wisps by lone Valerie (so that their initial, very hard-hitting chain-lightning-type of attacks didn't affect others), and use Animate Dead right away (Harrim has only 1 memorized at lvl 5), we managed to get through the whole island without any more troubles. Wisps can get sickened, nice.
Just before the final encounter, the party reached lvl 6. This was such a joy! +1 Animate Dead spell for Harrim (this feels so substantial), Jaethal now can inflict Bewildering Injury on anyone she hits, additional spell slots for Octavia!
Duke Dazzleflare felt all the power of our new level. He got intimidated, and the shaken status allowed Stun from Bronn work. We used those 5 seconds to effectively send this Duke to the same plane Viscount now resides in.
Only one area, but it felt so long, difficult and rewarding. I wouldn't recommend the Candlemere Tower area for lvl 5 parties.
Serg_BlackStrider
Habitué
- Messages
- 138
Thanks!
My Kitty is (and always will be) awesome! =) With a standart stock of buffs (Mage Armor, Blur, Heroism, Shield of Faith, Barkskin) she is pretty much an invincible mobile tank and if polished with Cat's Grace + Shield (from Jubilost via infusion) even more so. I can't imagine myself going on without her.
It was pretty bold to visit there at lvl5 =) Glad your crew made it through in one piece!
- Messages
- 674
Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition - Update 1.2.0e BETA - Steam News
A major update is now available in beta
alice_ashpool
Habitué
- Messages
- 572
Some nice fixes to Zippy Magic and Enduring Spells. No longer working on abilities for Zippy and not working on scrolls for Enduring. Both seem nice. Enduring is a bit of a trap anyway imo unless you are going for 24h round/level stuff, and even then its pretty niche personally. But not working on scrolls seems like the right thing.
The Aivu reduction is good too, since it does feel weird to be outclassed by her.
Aspect of Brimorak being fixed is great since that was a core Demon+Caster feature that didn't work.
I still really want them to change Archmage Armor to only work with spellbook Mage Armor, to stop people complaining about it mostly.
Overall not as much as I thought 1.2 might include but some nice stuff regardless; Plus, first DLC incoming on 15th Feb
The Aivu reduction is good too, since it does feel weird to be outclassed by her.
Aspect of Brimorak being fixed is great since that was a core Demon+Caster feature that didn't work.
I still really want them to change Archmage Armor to only work with spellbook Mage Armor, to stop people complaining about it mostly.
Overall not as much as I thought 1.2 might include but some nice stuff regardless; Plus, first DLC incoming on 15th Feb