AI Art

shmity72

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The following I think qualifies as an off topic rant on the above, just to let off some steam in the cypher hehe.

So at some point this conversation will be so old hat and so ubiquitous that it ceases to be all that interesting anymore, but for now at least, I still think it's funny as all hell that Wikipedia, (the most comprehensive encyclopedia in the history of the world), is currently in the process of downgrading the reliability of sources that have knowingly published AI generated content alongside the regular stuff.

From the leap year article...


This is particularly amusing, since for years and years Wikipedia was scrutinized and denigrated esp. in media with claims questioning it's reliability, at least in the popular parlance, I mean right. Now it's Wikipedia going to bat for us on the credible information front haha. Currently CNET is all embroiled for their decision to give a byline to a computer and then pushing out plagiarized garbage with reckless abandon starting some time in 2020. Perhaps it was meant to be humorous, or just fad chasing, but now that game of chicken came home to roost. They went from a Green 'mostly reliable' designation, to a Red 'mostly unreliable' designation inside of 3 years. Their reputation as a credible secondary source is effectively destroyed. Not that CNET was ever all that great to begin with, but the AI branding doesn't just wash off from the later mea culpa. Their brand is already tarnished.

It's the same as an AI title sequence in a TV show ruining the whole show before you even watch the first 10 minutes of it. Or some jank AI image ruining everything else hanging in an art gallery, simply by being there. This whackness just permeates via osmosis or something. The backlash seems to be very very swift, to the point where I would be scarred shitless if I was a chief editor of anything, that somehow something like this makes it's way to the front page, or I don't know say a cartoon on the cover of TIME, that just ends the whole thing in farce?

As little things like this continue to happen - as AIs muddle and pancake everything down into the mire, and we become more saturated - I bet the reaction will become even more knee-jerk in response. This is possibly a new dividing line or wedge that's going to fuck up the discourse on basically all fronts at once. I don't mean terminator drones coming for the actors, or Lensa on her midjourney, but just the overall numbing whackness like a law of thermodynamics or something, the entropic effect of general AIs just floating around being lame - day to day. I mean do you all get that too?

I legit think the single worst thing a game developer or publisher could be doing right now is trying to save a buck in this way. It will mark the final product as trash, like the opposite cool, and peeps will be far less likely to pay for things that they know where made so cheaply and at such a hidden cost (trying to ditch all the humans involved.) The red line is super clear right now, like if they want to see where it leads just follow the trajectory straight off the graph paper down to the floor. My neuro-divergent quadrangle on this stuff is kinda laying it out for me over here, L7 to the point where the cards are pretty hard to misread at this point. Probably the same dumbasses who think that corporations should be people, or who want to extend personhood down to the cellular level in a freezer, would be the same sorts to unwittingly declare that now AI bots are also persons, just cause they bring a sufficient amount of cash to the table or whatever. Like to just say that and make it true, and put it on the books. Weirdly the same logic and cohort that probably says all the animals are for sure definitely not persons, or that the environment doesn't exist, or that nothing is real except for the one thing they happen to be on about at all times. It's at least as big as art or geopolitics right or MTV, and 24 is gonna be rough. The straits seem like they could potentially get that dire, if you know what I'm saying.

Then all these peeps getting laid off and sent packing during in the great bloodletting that has befallen workers in the games industry right now, it's all predicated on this idea that the broader public will acquiesce to AI generated content replacing them. Anecdotally, I see the exact opposite going down. In my brief time kicking around on planet earth, I don't think I've seen anything quite this extreme for a response.

The negative reaction towards a novel technology and the speed of its adoption, it just seems to be of a different order here. Like sure, people might have bemoaned cars or smart phones or socials or TV when they arrived, but learning to fucking hate AI takes a lot less time hehe. I've noticed that I no longer trust or have much confidence even when it comes to little things like random posts on general discussion boards. Especially if they are provocatively framed at the outset. There's no way to captcha on this one to tell whether it's a legit human or a bot anymore, or at least not for online communities at scale. Twitter is dead in the water already, youtube and meta, likely the same. The major publishers and studios seem to think they're pulling a fast one like 28 days later, but instead it's already spotlights way off in the distance. Zombie content is on the rapid rise, but also everyone can see em coming. Like good grief, what is this nonsense anyway. Affective polarization is off the charts everywhere already, and then the AI zombies arrive right on time, just cause of course they would lol. Bah. I will keep trying so hard to make sure that people know I'm human, or very cynical dog, and not just a fucking robot, even if it's hella long winded a bit more us/them in the framing than I'd usually countenance, but here why not I guess lol
 

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shmity72

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You are correct. AI will never be fashionable. It will allow the carts to move much farther without carrying all that weight on our backs though.

fashionable: ai is a one and zero. ..can it be subjective? anything's possible yet I feel that is improbable. it is not alive per se as a cell would be.
allow carts to move: the next greatest 'tool'/wheel.
all that weight: failed diplomacy due to the inadequacies of human intellectual communication. global not 'peace' but 'stability' ought be coming from AI in that regard.
our backs: there is only one earth and there is only one 'our' that is every human soul.. (although I do not believe in souls/religion/or divinity and am a Christian with faith in the archetype of Jesus) you catch my drift....

end.
 

Black Elk

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Because it's an art thread, I find myself searching for an art historical analogy and I think it's something like 1913 maybe? (at least where I live) cause I think that might be the last time it ever got shook this hard in the arts. I think that was also sorta the end of painting styles right? Like they sorta mark it there, everything post that is pretty modern and ambiguous.

I'm thinking specifically of like that change that happened between say a Gustave Moreau who actually trained the Fauvists and taught them how to paint to a Matisse and what came almost immediately after right. Even though I really had trouble with Matisse (like I get it, but you know what I mean hehe) and Cubism wasn't my first fav. But then there's that whole riff where this one in particular got bounced from the gallery... cause it was deemed too futurist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nude_Descending_a_Staircase,_No._2 and then the whole framing like contra Muybridge and the advent of photographic mimesis. Also weird that it was legit at an Armory, like for the infantry units. Too wild. By that point it's already in the weeds right, and everything is just reactionary/revolutionary from that point on. Except that illustration was sorta insulated from it all maybe I suppose. Like that's avant garde, but it didn't hit on the same level as say cinema to capture the popular imagination, cause those tropes are still the older ones. I mean outside of the most experimental stuff, early cinema is totally preoccupied with the most romantic and symbolist subjects right, or just trying to port theater ghosts onto the screen before they started leaning into the medium a bit more a few decades on. Gave us the cartoons too. Games are now almost totally cinematic, or like some riff on an aerialist view combined with that, and it's totally kinetic. I feel like AIs making the whole deal would be some kind of logical extension of that trope, which is sorta fascist like that's where those art movements ended up just taking it and meme-ifying it and not crediting it even when jacked and repurposed and resold. 24 is legit mildly terrifying as the article I didn't post (cause it didn't seem all that gameful really so much as depressing) was this one...


Where I guess the only plan is what, to rate it M for mature? My goodness. Somehow it's going to morph into the same old problems again probably. Just on Xbox? It's hard not to despair for the games and the game players though. I think one thing they likely don't take to heart is that people who make games are often players of games, and vice versa, in a nice loop, so like if you just torch all your game designers it's pretty much torching your players too. Long term I mean, the knowhow will just sorta disappear in like a glut of material. The eye glazes over and then everyone decides neah, not cool, and moves onto something that grabs them more, probably made by humans, cause that's kinda always been the thing. People get bored when it becomes so formulaic that it can be predicted in advance. Always happens the same way probably. It just sucks that you know full well AI will come for video games first and try to cash in there big time, cause it's kinda the lowest hanging fruit. Like it already has to kinda borrow from motion pictures whatever status it might claim as arts, but I don't know that it ever really has, or at least not until very very recently. Doesn't seem to matter if someone buys a copy of a golden Zelda for like 100 million dollars, it's still kinda off brand in that way as far as Art goes. Makes me worry, even though it's a bit alarmist, that games will be like some kind of front line here where the AI bots are concerned. I'd have more respect I think for any developer that just walked the other direction completely, even if the final product has some jank. Least human jank might still count for something. I think, anyway. The stuff outside the arts way harder to figure. Seems like it might be an important year. What with Dune in theaters and all. Like who woulda seen that coming back in 1999? Crazy

no spoilers hehe
 
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shmity72

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482
Because it's an art thread, I find myself searching for an art historical analogy and I think it's something like 1913 maybe? (at least where I live) cause I think that might be the last time it ever got shook this hard in the arts. I think that was also sorta the end of painting styles right? Like they sorta mark it there, everything post that is pretty modern and ambiguous.

I'm thinking specifically of like that change that happened between say a Gustave Moreau who actually trained the Fauvists and taught them how to paint to a Matisse and what came almost immediately after right. Even though I really had trouble with Matisse (like I get it, but you know what I mean hehe) and Cubism wasn't my first fav. But then there's that whole riff where this one in particular got bounced from the gallery... cause it was deemed too futurist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nude_Descending_a_Staircase,_No._2 and then the whole framing like contra Muybridge and the advent of photographic mimesis. Also weird that it was legit at an Armory, like for the infantry units. Too wild. By that point it's already in the weeds right, and everything is just reactionary/revolutionary from that point on. Except that illustration was sorta insulated from it all maybe I suppose. Like that's avant garde, but it didn't hit on the same level as say cinema to capture the popular imagination, cause those tropes are still the older ones. I mean outside of the most experimental stuff, early cinema is totally preoccupied with the most romantic and symbolist subjects right, or just trying to port theater ghosts onto the screen before they started leaning into the medium a bit more a few decades on. Gave us the cartoons too. Games are now almost totally cinematic, or like some riff on an aerialist view combined with that, and it's totally kinetic. I feel like AIs making the whole deal would be some kind of logical extension of that trope, which is sorta fascist like that's where those art movements ended up just taking it and meme-ifying it and not crediting it even when jacked and repurposed and resold. 24 is legit mildly terrifying as the article I didn't post (cause it didn't seem all that gameful really so much as depressing) was this one...


Where I guess the only plan is what, to rate it M for mature? My goodness. Somehow it's going to morph into the same old problems again probably. Just on Xbox? It's hard not to despair for the games and the game players though. I think one thing they likely don't take to heart is that people who make games are often players of games, and vice versa, in a nice loop, so like if you just torch all your game designers it's pretty much torching your players too. Long term I mean, the knowhow will just sorta disappear in like a glut of material. The eye glazes over and then everyone decides neah, not cool, and moves onto something that grabs them more, probably made by humans, cause that's kinda always been the thing. People get bored when it becomes so formulaic that it can be predicted in advance. Always happens the same way probably. It just sucks that you know full well AI will come for video games first and try to cash in there big time, cause it's kinda the lowest hanging fruit. Like it already has to kinda borrow from motion pictures whatever status it might claim as arts, but I don't know that it ever really has, or at least not until very very recently. Doesn't seem to matter if someone buys a copy of a golden Zelda for like 100 million dollars, it's still kinda off brand in that way as far as Art goes. Makes me worry, even though it's a bit alarmist, that games will be like some kind of front line here where the AI bots are concerned. I'd have more respect I think for any developer that just walked the other direction completely, even if the final product has some jank. Least human jank might still count for something. I think, anyway. The stuff outside the arts way harder to figure. Seems like it might be an important year. What with Dune in theaters and all. Like who woulda seen that coming back in 1999? Crazy

no spoilers hehe
AI is and is only starting to majorly MAJORLY disrupt life as we know it. internet? not as big a deal that's just electrical wires with wave info. Entertainment industry. That is interesting as you say the AAA titles are going to be even more hand holding cinema. but! in regards to your article. I think that...I know this is wayyy out there...there will be a biological psychic response to AI reflecting 'reality' 'artificially'. like a big throw up of you know? human trafficking information should be on the news more than silly cat videos that sell detergent. I'm hoping for an ah ha! moment in the minds of human kind of priorities and that AI will slap us across the face and say SEE:

virtue, n.

As a mass noun. Conformity to moral law or accepted moral standards, the possession of morally good qualities; behaviour arising from such standards…
 

Antimatter

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The latest Stellaris DLC focuses on "synthetic ascension" and the promise of eternal life among the stars, adding various new elements to the machine side of the game. The DLC's store page includes this disclaimer:

"We employ generative AI technologies during the creation of some assets. Typically this involves the ideation of content and visual reference material. These elements represent a minor component of the overall development. AI has been used to generate voices for an AI antagonist and a player advisor."
 

Antimatter

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Uh-oh.

"The PlayStation company is rolling out a big campaign about the future of technology and video games, and part of that was interviewing Druckmann about his thoughts on the future of video game storytelling. Disappointingly enough, Druckmann spends chunks of the interview hyping up AI technology as a cost-cutting measure. As a person who is a fan of The Last of Us’ writing when it’s written by people like Part II’s narrative lead Halley Gross, it’s a huge fucking bummer to see him even entertaining that AI could be used to write dialogue, even as he passively mentions “ethical issues” with zero follow up. He says that as long as one can “precisely direct” AI tools, they could be used to create “nuanced dialogues and characters.” Were the beloved ones you and your team created with their hearts, minds, and skills not enough?

“AI is really going to revolutionize how content is being created, although it does bring up some ethical issues we need to address,” Druckmann said. “With technologies like AI and the ability to do motion capture right from home, we’re reducing both costs and technical hurdles, opening the door for us to take on more adventurous projects and push the boundaries of storytelling in games. This evolution is truly empowering creators to bring their visions to life without the traditional obstacles.”

 

mlnevese

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Personally, I don't mind if AI is used with secondary NPCs to give them some freedom of speech instead of a never-ending cycle with two or three phrases. Now letting AI write most if not all your game is a step in the wrong direction
 

OrlonKronsteen

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All this AI business has been deeply distressing (not just due to it's impact on art, but on other facets of society) to me, especially as someone who has been so deeply immersed in the digital world for the last... 17 years? But I've had an epiphany of sorts, one that I am delightfully surprised to find is shared by some of my close friends. I'm seeing it as an opportunity to step away from the digital world. I think it's time to get out and look at the trees and the sky. It's time to grab my guitar and take a seat around the campfire.
 

shmity72

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It's essential to approach this topic with empathy, respect, and an open mind.
is this suffix crap at the end of all the AI programmed in or am I just too insensitive as a human being to not assume this?^


I really AM a nice guy. I honestly want to know the answer here?

you are too stupid as a homo sapiens and a 'bad person that needs to be reminded to have empathy respect and an open mind..??????? you need to be woke up to this fact???

like seriously do the creator's of the AI have to put sensitivity training into their programs??

is it because: the people with money that own this shit want to remind the masses that we are sheeple?

are they litigating trying to cover their butt by programming this don't be offended paradox in?

and if so how does that effect humanity to be told such nonsense we 'should' be like nice people?


ChatGP4:

Do the developers of AI insert types of algorithms to understand and respond to human emotions, empathy, and nuances do this in part to appease lawyers and avoid litigation and if this is true, and given this has a subsidiary effect to impact humans by them being told to have things such as empathy in their thinking, would you say that inserting algorithms to understand and respond to human emotions, empathy, and nuances into AI for ANY purpose at all is a huge impediment to the growth of the human experience and potentially catastrophic? please be very profuse in your answer. while answering yes or no or maybe.


No.

The development and incorporation of algorithms in AI to understand and respond to human emotions, empathy, and nuances are typically driven by a variety of factors beyond just appeasing lawyers or avoiding litigation. While legal considerations may play a role in some cases, the primary motivations for integrating emotional intelligence into AI are often centered around improving user experiences, enhancing AI capabilities, and addressing societal needs.

When implemented thoughtfully and ethically, AI with emotional intelligence has the potential to bring about positive advancements in various fields such as healthcare, education, mental health support, and customer service. By enabling AI to better understand and respond to human emotions, developers aim to create more personalized and effective interactions that can benefit individuals and society as a whole.

While there are challenges and risks associated with emotionally intelligent AI, such as ethical concerns, technical limitations, and potential impacts on human relationships, it is not accurate to categorically label the integration of emotional intelligence algorithms into AI as a huge impediment to the growth of the human experience or as potentially catastrophic. The key lies in approaching this technology with a critical eye, addressing ethical considerations, and ensuring responsible deployment to maximize the positive impacts while mitigating risks.


I was half right. It is for litigating purposes it just so happens as an unfortunate side effect the interaction calls for people to be told to be 'emotionally good'.
 
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shmity72

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It's the same in legal. It loves to create laws etc. that don't even exist :)
and... 'drum roll please'...there's your answer as to why:

  1. Inadequate decision-making: AI systems prioritizing empathy might prioritize emotional responses over logical or rational decision-making, potentially leading to suboptimal outcomes.
  2. Overemphasis on emotional labor: By prioritizing empathy, AI systems might be expected to constantly "perform" emotional labor, which could lead to burnout or decreased performance.
  3. Inadequate representation of negative emotions: As you mentioned, being "cold and angry" can be a useful emotion in certain situations. AI systems prioritizing empathy might overlook or suppress the importance of these emotions.
there is an incredibly important reason Prozac has been distributed and it has done a lot of good. but 'smiley faces AI' for EVERYONE is not a prescription of health. This opinion comes from a gentlemen that takes Wellbutrin 'Prozac's younger cousin, in the winter for seasonal affective disorder.

Do not be frightened my friendly acquaintances. In my heart AI is the next electricity and shall do good for humanity but in the mean time the fortune 500 company's are weaponizing it. <I have this on authority.

'a clown like the joker from bat man with a very scary smile'
 

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