Dueling Torches...or how's the Torchlight run going (m7600)?

[m7600]

Most of the magic items do seem to be complete wack, this is one aspect of the Diablo franchise that they didn't get right. In this I agree with @JustKneller. But the bright side is that the unique items seem to be the exception to the rule.

 

[JustKneller]

Spoiler: And now for something completely different

Once I started my summoner run, I notice that gear requirements can be worked around with level. That is, an item might require a Strength of X or a character level of Y. Since I'm playing on Veteran (hard), I'll be farming a bit for levels and can keep ahead of the curve on most things. So, I switched from spreading out my stats to doing full Vitality. For a summoner, the only stat that matters is block chance (but Dodge can be useful, and more mana is nice). I didn't make it far with this one before I hit a wall. By focusing entirely on defense, my offense tapered off long before I would get my first viable summon. Like, I was literally doing the tiniest slivers of damage to my enemies health bars. Because my defense was maxed out, I didn't die or anything, but I also couldn't move forward. Kind of an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object situation.

All the way, I was having some fun smacking around enemies in melee, so I rebuilt my Engineer as a sword and board type. I named her Rebecca after the title character in Tank Girl and started to smash away. But, then I realized my fatal mistake. If I'm building a character inspired by Tank Girl, then I really should be using a canon. So, I scrapped my sword and board Engineer and started what you see above. She has been splitting her level up points between Str and Vitality (alternating 3:2 and 2:3), but I think I might actually switch to just 3:2 favoring Strength since Vitality's biggest benefit is to shields (which she is not using). I might even go 3:1:1 and throw Focus in the mix if I need more mana. Skill wise, there's actually plenty of room in this build for summons (aka bots). So, I guess technically, she still is a summoner, but will be dishing out serious damage with a cannon.

And so, I present Rebecca (and Jet, her pet hawk). Pa-pa-pa-POW!

 

[JustKneller]

Spoiler: Off to a running start

Don't mind the chompy chest. That's just Jet after eating some funky fish.

I have Heavy Lifting 5, Healing Bot 5, Blast Cannon 1, Forcefield 1. Heavy Lifting gives me a boost with cannon damage and also gives me a chance to stun (currently 10%). The Healing Bot is my main source of healing between skirmishes and the healing surge also helps me regenerate mana faster.. I've only used a single potion so far, and it might have actually even been a mana potion. I plan to max out Blast Cannon, but having that first point so I can even use it is the important thing this early. Finally, the Forcefield is giving my defense a solid boost. I can use decent armor with my high Strength and Vitality, but I can't use a shield with the cannon. Forcefield helps make up for that. With that in mind, I've switched my stat allocation to 3:2 Strength/Vitality as of level 10. I may even shift it to 4:1 at level 20.

It's been a pretty breezy run so far. The cannon gives me decent damage and AoE crowd control all wrapped up in one. Plus, it's all physical damage, so I don't need Focus to boost elemental damage. I have some decent gear for my level. That cannon leeches life, which is handy if something breaks through my forcefield. I have a couple of +minion pieces, as well. It only helps Jet, for now, but the minion damage bonuses will help the Spider Mines when I get those. And then that weird helmet gives me a boost to both health and my magic find.

Jet has a summon skeleton spell going for it. I don't have much of a strategy here. I do want to avoid having to accordian my keyboard every time I want to attack (like I had to do with my T1 summoner), so I may stick to passive spell boosts that don't need to be cast. Then, I'll give Jet the good cast-ables and she can deal with that.

So far, so good. I can already tell this game is leagues ahead of the first one. My only major criticisms for far are a) I think they shrunk the stash size a little and b) the story is really weaksauce. I mean, they effectively just ripped off the premise of Diablo 2. I will say that the art is better, and I did like the animated cut screen in the intro where they told the story of Diablo 2 Torchlight up until now. On top of that, I appreciate that my female hero is actually appropriately/realistically dressed for the job at hand.

 

[JustKneller]

Spoiler: Whoops, missed my exit

I forgot to take a screenshot at level 20. Better late than never.

I have Heavy Lifting 7, Healing Bot 6, Blast Cannon 6, Spider Mines 1, Gun Bot 1, Charge Domination 1, Forcefield 6. I'm glad I didn't try to hold out for a pure summoner. Everything I've read indicated that spider mines are the base of that build and I'm finding spider mines to be a bit...weird. They aren't a typical summon. They can't form a front line. Instead, they're just a bunch of little kamikaze bots that seek out and explode on contact with an enemy. And, I'm being generous with "seek out" and they tend to hover around me and don't have much range. That being said, they are contextually useful, especially in boss fights. I'm beefy, but my damage is getting to be a little rubbish against bosses. I can't really go toe-to-toe there. However, I can kite and drop mines as the baddie chases me.

I'm kinda thinking I need to start trading Vitality for Dexterity. Dexterity will give me dodge, lower my fumble (% chance of a weak attack), and increase my crit chance. It will help beef up my damage. I really only need Vitality for gear requirements, and I'm feeling ahead of the curve now. I have read some debate on this online, but getting to about 50ish Dexterity might do more for me than just more Vitality.

I have two cannons currently. One is a slow, heavy hitter. The other does less damage, but has mana leech. I only just picked this one up. My thought is this. Blast Cannon costs 13 mana, does 130% weapon damage, makes the target more succeptible to physical and fire damage, and can even blind the target. My mana leach cannon pulls 9 mana a hit, so I can use Blast Cannon pretty regularly at a cost of 4 mana. The extra 30% damage puts it slightly head of my "heavy hitter" cannon. So, and I'm about to test this out, I should not only be doing just as decent damage with this cannon, but then throwing all the other status effects out there even more.

Aside from this, I have two set pieces of armor that (together) let's me also leech 20% of my damage as health (I think). A bit a health leech helps for times my forcefield runs out and I need to re-cast. Some of my other gear gives minion boosts to damage. I'm not sure how valuable this is. My pet is definitely weaker than me. I also don't lean on spider mines that much (yet). However, I did just get the Gun Bot, so that's something.

 

[JustKneller]

Well, crappity crap. That plan didn't work. It would appear that leeches only trigger on normal attacks, not special skills like Blast Cannon. I can intersperse normal attacks with the Blast Cannon to regen mana, but that somewhat defeats (or nerfs) the purpose. Live and learn.

I've also had my first death, and it's really all my fault. There are enchanted weapons in the game that have a secondary enchantment that is only revealed if you kill a certain number of enemies with the weapon. So, I've occasionally been running around with a melee weapon (sub-optimal for my build) just to reveal the enchantments. There's no good reason for this. I'm going to sell the item anyway and I don't think revealing the hidden enchantments affects the price. Long story short, I got mobbed while wielding a crap weapon and that was that. Curiosity killed the cat. Lesson learned.

I'm finding I have a very different relationship with the transmuter this game. You can't transmute weaker gems into stronger ones. Instead, you can take any three gems, and get a random other gem of the same tier. It's not worth it. So, I've mostly been selling gems and dropping whatever looks good in my current gear. The same goes with transmuting magic items. I can turn four uniques into another single slightly weaker unique. The only recipes that seem to have any use for me are to level up my potions, and transmuting two set items into another random set item (if I'm trying to fill out a set).

Gold is more valuable to me here. The enchanter (which boosts already enchanted items) is not cheap. Additionally, the gambler can have some good stuff. I actually picked up my next cannon (it's a real beast) from the gambler, but I need more Strength or levels before I can use it.

 

[JustKneller]

Spoiler: Turning 30

Check out that honker of a cannon. This is the next level cannon I referred to in the last post. I didn't hit the level for it, but found a nice Strength boosting item and so I can equip it now. It slightly more than doubles my damage, which I need, because my last cannon was starting to taper off.

I'm doing 3:2 for Strength/Dexterity. However, it's now lowering my Fumble stat like I had hoped. I'm definitely off Dexterity once I get to 10% crit and dodge. In fact, I might stop right off and go back to Strength/Vitality. Dexterity isn't doing as much as I would hope here.

I have Heavy Lifting 8, Heal Bot 8, Blast Cannon 8, Spider Mines 1, Gun Bot 5, Charge Domination 1, Forcefield 7. I read a guide that suggested adding two other skills into the mix, but both of them require you to get a little close to the enemies to get the benefit. I'm doing pretty well at keeping a medium distance and want to keep it that way. So, I'll fill out the skills that I have (plus there are two more bots to pick up at later levels), though I'll probably keep Spider Mines and Charge Domination level 1. If I run out of stuff to get, I'll add in Bullwark, which will up both my armor value and damage resistance.

Gear-wise, I have a set of items that leeches 20% of my damage as health. I think that's about 50 hp per shot. It's not much, and I barely need it with forcefield, but it's better than nothing. I still have some minion bonuses, too.

I've had a couple of close calls with nearly dying again. Every time, I was playing too aggressively. At the end of the day, this is a tank character. Slow and steady wins the race.

 

[JustKneller]

Spoiler: Over the hill

I have a slight upgrade to my cannon, but otherwise no big changes these last 10 levels. I'm off Dexterity and back on Vitality with two points a level. Once I get to 100, I might actually switch to full Strength. Defense/Armor is just worthless in this game and the HP you get with extra points in Vitality is insignificant. Really, Vitality's only good feature is block chance, but I'm not using a shield.

For skills, I have Heavy Lifting 9, Coup de Grace 4, Heal Bot 9, Blast Cannon 9, Spider Mines 1, Gun Bot 8, Charge Domination 1, Forcefield 9. I added in Coup de Grace because it gives bonus damage when enemies are stunned and my cannon stuns enemies pretty often. I've had a few deaths essentially from getting swarmed (and sometimes immobilized first). I'm thinking of adding in either Storm Burst or Tremor. Both will knockback enemies, giving me a breathing room from getting swarmed. I'm not sure which is the better option, so I'm still considering it.

 

[JustKneller]

Spoiler: It's the 5-0

Look at that cannon. Now that's style. It's actually not much better than the one it replaced. Equivalent DPS. This one does about 1/3 less damage per shot, but it shoots about 50% faster. The benefit here, other than the bling, is that my on hit effects (namely, stun) will trigger much more often, which then activates Coup de Grace more often, which is a solid chunk of damage (about double the damage of this cannon per second).

I have Storm Burst 1, Heavy Lifting 10, Coup de Grace 6, Heal Bot 10, Blast Cannon 10, Spider Bot 2, Gun Bot 10, Charge Domination 1, Forcefield 10, Immobilization Copter 4. At this point, I'm just going to dump my points into Strength. My highest Vitality gear item is only 63 and the three hit points I get per point of Vitality are insignificant. However, I could always use more damage.

I've had yet a few more deaths. Often times, there's too many enemies on the screen so I can't kite to stay alive, instead, I end up clicking on an enemy to shoot and stand in place while something whacks at me. I'm hoping that rank of Storm Burst helps. So, instead of clicking to move and just shooting something, I can use a dash attack to get to a less crowded space. Aside from that, it's been a steady grind. I have a couple more minion pieces which help. I'm using the Spider Mines quite liberally (since they're disposable) and the Gun Bot strategically (since it has a duration plus a cooldown period).

 

[JustKneller]

Spoiler: This is the end

And so, I have finished the game. My skills are: Storm Burst 1, Heavy Lifting 11, Coup de Grace 6, Heal Bot 11, Blast Cannon 10, Spider Mines 2, Gun Bot 10, Sledge Bot 2, Charge Domination 1, Forcefield 11, Immobilization Copter 5. I went 4:1 Strength/Vitality, just in case.

The rest of it went ok. I had no more deaths and the final fights were really not that bad. There was basically a boss and a super-boss and I probably only used three or four potions between the two.

I have a few options here. I can go to The Mapworks where I can buy random maps to clear to keep leveling. Or, I can go to New Game Plus (NG+) and be sent to the beginning of the game, at my current level, but everything is boosted up (I believe the first area starts at level 51). Finally, I can start a new character and try a new build.

If this was Diablo 2, I would probably be doing #3 and trying other builds and classes. However, there is one aspect of Torchlight 2 that keeps me from doing so. That is, armor is pretty useless and Forcefield, which only an Engineer gets, is life. The only exception goes to shields, and that's only if you build for it. All of my deaths happened rather quickly after I lost my Forcefield (and I was unable to re-summon it due to cooldown). I mean, obviously other classes can survive the game and other players have played them. But, I expect that any other class is mashing the potion button as part of their strategy. I could just play another Engineer, but I'm pretty sure that this build has been pretty optimal (and cannons are pretty sick). My other options are to play a melee Engineer (2h weapons or weapon and shield), but getting into melee will melt my Forcefield. I could also go back to playing a pure summoner and only using pet/summons for the challenge, but a cannon build has so few skill demands that I'm already a full summoner with a cannon on top of it.

So, that leaves me with The Mapworks or NG+ (and subsequently NG+2 all the way to NG+5). I'll have to ponder on this one.

 

[JustKneller]

It's a tough call. Reddit is telling me about a melee Engineer type build that can facetank anything. I looked at the breakdown, and its hardy, but being melee and always in the fray, I'm not sure it can beat Tank Girl on survivability. I'm somewhat drawn to a Hulk-smash character that can take a beating, but Tank Girl has a high smash factor, too, with the cannon. I'm leaning towards Tank Girl, but maybe restarting (since I can't respec), building it a little cleaner, and seeing if I can get through a run without dying. Then, I can take that character to NG+ and grind to level 100. I don't have much time to game over the holiday, so I have more time to consider my options.

 

[JustKneller]

Spoiler: Second verse, sorta same as the first

Well, if there's one thing that hanging out with family over the holiday has taught me is that sometimes there's no point in defending yourself and so you just need to DPS through things. With that in mind, this is Tank Girl 2.0. All points are going into Strength for damage. I crunched some numbers and figured out that those 95 points I put in Vitality did nothing for me except add a few hundred hit points (which is a drop in the bucket out of the 4300 hit points I had by end game). Meanwhile, those points in strength would bump me from a 94.5% boost to damage to 142%.

This may be a bad idea, though. Vitality also gave me earlier access to some better gear. Now, I'll need to be a higher level to use the better gear. But, I'm thinking this will only be a minor inconvenience. That is, if I get a good piece of gear, instead of holding onto it and playing through until I level enough for it, I can just grind where I'm at until my levels are up. Then, I'll generally be overleveled a bit going forward, which will up my survivability. Also, I'll be able to get around the gear issue eventually when/if I find the enchanter that can give massive boosts to stats. That will then hold me over until I max levels and can just use everything.

I have Heavy Lifting 3, Healing Bot 4, Blast Cannon 1, Forcefield 3. I'm prioritizing Healing Bot and Forcefield, but can't ignore Heavy Lifting since I'll need it more with my gear having a little lag.

 

[JustKneller]

Spoiler: Time to level up my game

Tank Girl 2.0 has been retired and replaced with Eiko and Mog (that panda was the closest thing I could find to a Moogle).

Here's the thing.

When I used to play Diablo 1, I didn't clear the game with a rogue (arguably the easiest class), then optimize the rogue and faceroll the game. Instead, I delved into other classes and worked my way toward playing a Beyond Naked Mage (a sorcerer that equips the most cursed equipment he can find) on Hell difficulty. So, Tank Girl 2.0 was a bit of a cop out.

What makes Eiko and Mog different are two things. First, I upped the difficulty from Veteran to Elite. Second,, this is a hardcore character. One death and she's done. I stuck with an Engineer, though, as some classes can only survive Elite Hardcore with luck, whereas an Engineer can make it as long as you have skill.

I'll be building her as a pure Vitality shield wearing summoner. Her #1 job is based around staying alive, so it's all the defense boosts and summons. It's going to be tough to get to level 14 (when I get my first proper summon), and I'll need to grind a bit to get ahead of the curve. But, this isn't meant to be a cakewalk.

I've already taken this character through the first area and can see the difference. There are no trash mobs in Elite. Every fight matters and can take me down if I get cocky.

Wish me luck! (Hey @Antimatter, how about a four leaf clover reaction emoji! )

 

[JustKneller]

Spoiler: What a long strange trip it's been

This is actually Eiko #2. I have one death already (and had to start over), but it wasn't really my fault. Dungeons are supposed to reset if you leave them for 20 minutes. I was trying to grind the first level of the first one I found because I needed both levels and gear before going for the boss. However, it just wouldn't reset. So, I set about on a plan to rush down to the boss room, run a lap, let Mog hit what she hits, and then get out to heal up. I didn't even make the first lap. The problem with kiting is that you need to have a place to click to move instead of attack, but if there are enemies everywhere, your pathfinding gets a little weird and (long story short) you die.

So it goes.

There is a way to force a reset if I start an MP game, reroll the world, and then go back to SP, but that seems a tad cheesy. Cleared areas will reset in SP if I progress far enough from an area (e.g. the memory only retains the last three dungeons you cleared). So, I just need to get further and I can then cycle old areas.

I currently have Healing Bot 5, Bulwark 3, and Forcefield 3. I'm already at a point where its pointless for me to attack (I do virtually no damage) so Mog is carrying all the weight. It's going to be a looooooong four levels to get spider mines...

 

[JustKneller]

This is killing me. I had to turn back from the final floor of the second dungeon (in the Temple Steppes). I also took out a phase beast in the same area, but there's a 66% chance going through the portal is suicide. However, that 33% keeps calling me.

That is turning into the biggest challenge; knowing when to walk away. Even Mog (with fish) is starting to have trouble managing the offense. I need spider mines to get this run really off the ground, but I'm still three levels away.

This makes me think of a quote from one of the DLCs of the only good Fallout game that Bethesda put out (New Vegas), "Finding it, though, that's not the hard part. It's letting go."

I think I know what I'm playing next.

 

[m7600]

Possibly the best metal band from Uruguay:



Edit: Whoops, I meant to post this in The Music Thread.

 

[BelgarathMTH]

Out of curiosity, are you self-restricting potion use? I've played tank engineers and had no trouble face-tanking everything in the game, but I don't care how many potions I use. I also build at least one of the engineer's many fantastic aoe melee damage output abilities. I've done Flame Hammer and Shield Bash builds. (I forget what the "Shield Bash" is actually called).

Or is it that you want to build a pure summoner of some kind, so you're not building for good damage output on your avatar, in favor of building the summons?

 

[JustKneller]

Out of curiosity, are you self-restricting potion use? I've played tank engineers and had no trouble face-tanking everything in the game, but I don't care how many potions I use. I also build at least one of the engineer's many fantastic aoe melee damage output abilities. I've done Flame Hammer and Shield Bash builds. (I forget what the "Shield Bash" is actually called).

Or is it that you want to build a pure summoner of some kind, so you're not building for good damage output on your avatar, in favor of building the summons?

Great question, I'm glad you asked that. I wouldn't say I'm limiting potion use, but I'm trying to keep to just found potions and not buy any, if possible. I couldn't possibly have enough gold in this game so I want to keep my expenses as low as possible. That being said, if the choice is between dying with a hardcore character and burning through my stock of potions, potions gonna burn.

You're spot on. The shield bash skill is called "Shield Bash".

I don't necessarily want to build a pure summoner, but the secondary attack set that complements it best is a cannon (you need very few skills to support a cannon). However, you can't use a shield with a cannon, and I definitely want a shield if I'm on Elite Hardcore. Meanwhile, a lot of the one handed weapon skills have a lot of other skill needs (i.e. Flame Hammer/Emberquake, Fire and Spark, Sword and Board, etc.) which will pull points away from summons and defensive skills. On top of that, the ultimate weapon for a summoner (for which you can reliably farm) is pretty weak offensively. Plus, since I'm full Vitality (and no Str/Dex/Foc), anything I use will hit like a wiffle bat anyway. I could potentially mix a Shield Bash build with this, but everything I've read on Reddit and Steam forums seems to suggest that it's pretty weaksauce.

That being said, I think I'm closing in on a point where I'll have skill points I can't use due to the intervals for skill upgrades. Or, I'll be at a level with skill points to spend, but all the summons/defenses will need a higher level to upgrade those skills. In that case, I'll most likely break into Shield Bash, especially since it's generates charge.

The last thing to consider though is hotkeys. I want to keep my strategy to four max (1-4, left hand), using "z" and "x" for my potions. Most of the summons (heal, gun, and sledge bot) can go on the high end of the row since you only use them periodically. However, I want easy access to Forcefield, Spider Mines, a mobility skill (likely Storm Burst) and something else (likely either Shield Bash or Dynamo Field, it's hard to say what's the better choice). I think Shield Bash might be better. Dynamo Field seems like it has more charge potential, but Shield Bash has more/better debuffs and potentially better damage.

All that being said, I did just get the spider mines recently and it's a game changer. Wow, did I ever struggle to get to level 14. I'm level 16 and still not at act 2, but mostly because I'm scared to face Grell with a hardcore character. I should be ok. I think his area is level 12, but still.

 

[JustKneller]

Spoiler: In the twenties

Pure Vitality, as you can see. I'm at a +21.1% block chance, and the shield has another 21% so 42% isn't bad for this stage of the game. I have Healing Bot 7, Spider Mines 5, Bullwark 7, Shield Bash 2, Forcefield 7.

However, I just learned something disappointing. I also googled the crap out of it to be sure, but forcefield takes damage before the block kicks in. So, the shield is only good as a secondary defense if something gets through your forcefield. It might be a lifesaver, but it's a stretch. On top of this, pure Vitality only equates to less than 25% of my total hit points. But wait, there's more. I'm running into leftover skill points already. As in, I get skill points, but all my summon/defense skills are as maxed as they can be for the level. I've been building Shield Bash, but it's AoE is pretty minimal. I think I could have planned this all out better.

The saving grace here is that minions are one of the few offenses that scale with your level in this game. Additionally, it makes gear hunting easy. I don't need bonuses to physical damage, fire damage, various stats, etc. All I really need are bonuses to +minion damage for my offense. Then, the rest of my enchants can be +life and damage resist. Also, I have plenty of room for magic find. I actually ran into the lucky enchanter and now have around +40 magic find. I think I'm at around +110% minion damage, too.

I'm going to soldier on with this build, but I'm kinda wishing I built into Dynamo Field over Shield Bash. Shield Bash works best if I throw myself into the fray, whereas Dynamo Field would let me work the edges. I've got to think ahead to what skills I want, though. I'm going to have spots where I'm maxed out on my mains and have points to spend. There's 133 skill points by level 100. So that's eight max skills and 13 points to spare. I think my eight are Healing Bot, Spider Mines, Gun Bot, Sledge Bot, Forcefield, Dynamo Field, Immobilization Copter, and Storm Burst. I'll write off the 2 points in Shield Bash and put the rest into probably Bullwark. These points are all a waste, but I can't think of a stronger option.

 

[m7600]

So, should I check out Torchlight 2? I didn't finish the first game, it was just too bland.

 

[JustKneller]

So, should I check out Torchlight 2? I didn't finish the first game, it was just too bland.

It's definitely better than the first game, mechanically. It does have some shortcomings, though. Unless you play a weird build like I am (pure summoner), defense is basically don't get hit because armor is worthless. The dodge stat is nerfy and shields are the only real defense to which everyone has access, but you really have to focus on them for them to be reliable. The particular class I'm playing has some special skills that give it a viable defense, but generally, from what I've read, a lot of builds are glass cannons. Just pump your damage stat(s) and max your DPS. With regards to the story/lore, it's kinda forgettable. It's obviously a knock-off of the Diablo 2 storyline, but there are still no memorable characters or enemies. There are some nice animated cut scenes between acts, but .

All that being said, I've beat the game and still having another go at it, upping the challenge. Depending on how this one goes and/or if something else grabs my attention, I have an idea in mind for a run to follow this one (basically another Hardcore Elite character, but this time, no summons for damage and I have to clear everything myself). I gave it a 4/5 compared to the 1/5 I give the first game. Despite its problems, they managed to hook my hyper-analytical brain with character building (whereas T1 was just kinda BS).

I would definitely wait for a sale. I bought it during a GoG sale for $4.23+tax. I'm ok with that. I think the full price of $20 might be overshooting its value.