Finishing moves in this game are really good. You'll notice that different weapon setups lead to different finishing moves for some particular enemies, like dragons. I remember I always tried to make it so that the finishing move in a particular fight was inflicted by my preferred party member, and also made screenshots of it. Still keep them somewhere.
And survive Revna did. Of the three recruits Duncan gathered, she was the only one to live through the Joining.
With no time to celebrate, she already had her first assignment. There was a battle with the darkspawn to come. Alistair and she were to ensure the beacon at the signal tower was lit so that the reinforcements would know when to advance on the enemy's flank.
This turned out to have far more action than the new Warden expected. The tower was overrun with darkspawn and the Wardens needed to fight their way to the top with the aid of a tower guard and mage. Much like in the wilds, they advanced with caution, picked their battles, and left a trail of slain dark spawn in their wake. Their ascent ended with an ogre battle. Fortunately, the beast was slow and the party ran circles around it.
Their efforts were for nought. Instead of charging into the fray, the reinforcements withdrew from the field. The king and a Duncan were left to fend for themselves. The young wardens had no time to react as they were almost immediately overrun by a horde of darkspawn. Revna took a few arrows and then fell into darkness.
My first go at the tower with my elf was a bloodbath for the party. This time we barely took a scratch. It's basically the same character, just a dwarf instead of an elf. However, even with the tight quarters, I was able to leverage my archers so that I could pick my battles. I gave a longbow to the tower guard and gave the guard's crossbow to Revna. A dwarf with a longbow would look absurd. The crossbow looks more reasonable.
The party only had one knockout. It was Alistair when fighting a genlock emissary. It was quite avoidable, too. The emissary was the last to go down in that fight and I thought Alistair could hold out long enough. Only missed the mark by less than a second. When he picked himself up afterwards, his injury was just a nature vulnerability so I ignored it.
The ogre was easy again and this time it dropped some much appreciated heavy armor for Alistair.
Level up points went to combat training and dual wield. After the Joining, I also took whatever is before lethality so now I can take it as soon as it opens up.
At this point, I need player housing, or at least storage. Inventory management is real when you swipe anything that's not bolted down. The codex is not helping me understand what all this swag is good for. I may turn to the wiki to figure out what I should hold on to and what I can sell.
Maybe I'm just getting old. I mean, I'm definitely getting old, but maybe this next bit boils down to that.
I'm pretty sure I made a mistake leaning into steal. I now have more crap than I can carry and I'm not even sure what a lot of it can do (without checking the wiki). Fortunately, I didn't put any points into it and am just working with the starting point. This is a minor thing, though.
I just picked up another NPC in Lothering. Some kind of nun rogue. I don't even think I had the option to turn her down.
I've been thinking about the Grey Wardens. It seems like a real bum deal, especially the Joining. The only ability you get from it is supposedly eventually the ability to detect darkspawn, but now they can also detect you, but somehow you can still stealth around them. And to get this minor ability you have to submit to a potentially fatal ritual. Why not just be a regular person hunting darkspawn. You can still detect them, you just need to use your eyes and ears?
Overall, I'm having a hard time finding motivation in the story. While I like the idea of a branching arc to unite a number of peoples, I'm finding the peoples and characters to be to blandly written to care about their fate.
I'm feeling lukewarm about the gameplay. And, this is where I think my age is starting to show. There are some nice animations, but I'm also pausing pretty much every second to adjust orders (because the tactics system just plain sucks). Between that and being zoomed out to keep an eye on everything, I virtually never see an actual full animation. On top of that, even with tactics off, I have to keep reissuing orders because toons with randomly stop their auto attacks for no reason. The combat is minimally strategic and maximally tedious. If they had gone turn-based, they would have been doing themselves a service. Real time just waters down the satisfaction of the micro and how combat hits.
But maybe it's not (just) the game. Considering my favorites are now games like Terraria, Subnautica, and Don't Starve Together, maybe I just prefer games where the narrative is supported by the gameplay with more than just combat. Then again, I'd still take a run through Icewind Dale (best capture of D&D feels) or the pre-X Final Fantasies (decent mechanics and great stories). I don't know. I'm just trying to figure out my motivation here.
Well, again, even if your opinions are a bit controversial, you're not far from being right. Turn-based mode won over any RtwP variants, period, and it happened over the last 5 years. Pillars of Eternity, Pathfinder games, they all added TB, and it became more popular among fans. And, of course, BG3.
It's not surprising in my opinion. RtwP was an idea of its time (around ~1997), a nod to a very popular genre of RTS games back then, and a way to combine RTS with D&D (I'm talking BG1 here). I think the fact we all loved RtwP in BG1 and BG2 was due to... the lack of a better alternative and the fact "it just worked".
As for the story and lore, I disagree, and think DA:O had them very well-written, along with companions. But it's one of those things where YMMV.
I've been thinking about the Grey Wardens. It seems like a real bum deal, especially the Joining. The only ability you get from it is supposedly eventually the ability to detect darkspawn, but now they can also detect you, but somehow you can still stealth around them. And to get this minor ability you have to submit to a potentially fatal ritual. Why not just be a regular person hunting darkspawn.
Well, you can't be a normal human hunting darkspawn because only a person who has undergone the gray warden ritual is capable of defeating the archdemon. If a normal human defeats the archdemon, any normal darkspawn can become a vessel for the archdemon to return. There's something about these blood drinking rituals in Dragon Age lore that bestows a bit of power from whatever the source of the blood is into you. This is how the dragon reavers work too.
Being a gray warden is supposed to be about sacrifice and victory at any cost. It is largely not something a commoner or criminal might be tempted by. The upside to being a gray warden from their perspective might be the fact that you are almost above the law to a very large extent. Alienage elves can talk to humans on an equal level, casteless dwarves get to be treated with honor in a way they never could otherwise, blood mages get to continue to live, etc. And the status might help the criminal activities of the unscrupulous.
Since I was a dwarf, I had plenty of motivation to be a part of the wardens, considering the honorable place they have in dwarven society. And being a disgraced noble, it was a way back to status in the eyes of her peers.
Well, again, even if your opinions are a bit controversial, you're not far from being right. Turn-based mode won over any RtwP variants, period, and it happened over the last 5 years.
Is it a controversial opinion if the genre has since trended in that direction? To be honest, I'm not totally up to date on the particulars of current games. For reasons I've mentioned before, I tend to let games marinate for a while and then see what stands the test of time. However, if they have trended back to turn-based, I guess I have something to which to look forward.
The "literary" aspects of the game are definitely subjective so you can't really label something as objectively bad or good. However, what I've seen so far has left me with some essential questions. What @WarChiefZeke said actually helps fill in some of the gaps. I didn't know about the whole soul transference of the archdemon thing and that only a Grey Warden could actually kill one. Is this conveyed at any point before Lothering? If so, I missed it?
There are a couple of other elements of the premise/early game that seem to be a little, well, odd, to say the least.
Duncan's murder of Jory could have really used some extra context. I think the whole "he drew his weapon first" bit was a little BS. Jory was obviously freaked out and not looking to fight anyway. Do people in general know that Grey Wardens have consumed darkspawn blood (probably not)? Would that change how people see them (probably)? Would this explain the necessity of secrecy (probably)?
Also, I kinda cheated and read some lore and I think I discovered that when you kill an archdemon, you're effectively sacrificing your own life to do so. This would be something to add to the front end. Otherwise, I imagine there would be a lot of pissed off Wardens who feel hoodwinked. If Jory knew that certain death came with slaying a archdemon, he probably never would have signed up.
And, for someone (Duncan) who is cunning enough to see the latent potential for a Grey Warden, he should have spotted that Jory was an ill fit from a mile away.
Anyway, the gravity of Grey Wardens could have used a little more weight in the premise. In some of the origins, it's barely a footnote to establish them. They're just revered monster mashers.
Then there's Alistair. You go from being babysat by him in the Korcari Wilds to within a day or two being the new leader of the Ferelden Grey Wardens and he's following your lead. How is a Duster pickpocket or a city elf slummer with a smattering of swordplay experience better suited to lead than a trained templar, with actual training and experience (albeit not much) who has about a year's seniority over whatever character you create. I can kinda sorta see a logic the PC taking charge with the (human) noble background (though it's hard to imagine a noble rogue), but still, you go from being a fresh recruit to the boss of it all in very little time. It really would have made more sense to be Alistair's show. I can also see a lot of character reasons for quitting after Ostegar and leaving Alistair to sort it all out.
I think I do hold cRPGs up to a higher writing standard than I do games in general. For me, that's an essential element to the genre. It's a roleplaying game, so a PC isn't just a toon looking for action, but a character who needs motivation and investment into the story. I headcanon some backstory for my characters, but even that is built off the established premise. Characters, their actions, and motivations need to make sense. If I'm asking why didn't this more reasonable thing happen, and the game doesn't have an answer for it, that's points against for me. This is a standard that I think I just hold for RPGs, and not even aRPGs (like Torchlight). The game is putting me in a situation where I'm expected to make meaningful choices. I'm going to look into the underlying meaning of those choices.
I started to riff from here, but I'm scaling it back. I definitely think part of the problem is the backstories I created. Playing The Bride from Kill Bill or a klepto-Dwarf who knows no better are definitely concepts that are incongruous with the story you have to work with. It's like taking a character from a Wes Anderson movie and putting them in a Paul W.S. Anderson movie. Mea culpa on that one. But, the story also feels like a sequence of events that are just checking the box on The Hero's Journey without fully connecting the dots.
To be honest, I would have interjected something of personal import with regards to the Grey Wardens in the origins. Where's Brosca's father? He actually became a Grey Warden during the last blight (or something like that). What happened to Tabris' mother? She was killed by darkspawn, but maybe if she was recruited by Duncan back in the day, she would have been better equipped to survive the encounter. Or maybe if she had been recruited by Duncan, she would have had the standing to not be assaulted byt the humans to begin with? Having different origins provided a great opportunity to establish a personal connection to the lifepath of the protagonist. Also, I would have killed off Alistair in the tower at Ostegar and made Dog a stronger tank to take his place. Now, you are the most senior Grey Warden in the land, have no way to contact others in other lands, have to figure it out for yourself with the help of the treaties and your only allies out of the gates are a dog and a witch of the wilds.
In short, I don't think it's a problem to be trope-y, especially with medieval fantasy. But, if you're just going to paint with primary colors the technique needs to be well refined.
I'm giving this some more thought. I'm not tossing the game just yet. Knowing what I know now, and what I have to work with for the premise, I'm going to consider a new concept. I'll probably just play through all the origins to see if one "fits" better. I've been avoiding the nobles (and Magi) because I want to play a rogue, and it's hard to rationalize a "noble rogue". But, we'll see how it shakes out.
What @WarChiefZeke said actually helps fill in some of the gaps. I didn't know about the whole soul transference of the archdemon thing and that only a Grey Warden could actually kill one. Is this conveyed at any point before Lothering? If so, I missed it?
Actually, it is mentioned in personal conversation by Alistair early on. You have to initiate dialogue with him though. Ask him "What happens if we just left?" and he mentions in passing that you are the only ones who can defeat it. He also mentions some other minor details, like how the Joining is magical and uses lyrium somehow.
You don't get the details of how it actually works until much later.
(I know this because this thread got me starting a new run, will continue to watch the thread if you keep playing)
I have been talking with my companions for the approval points, but I must have missed that one.
One can headcanon anything, but a duster or city elf risking their life to save mostly humans seems a stretch to me. This goes double after the battle of Ostegar and Alistair starts acting like a simp. My money is on them both collecting their families and heading to the most far away lands as possible. Leave the humans to sort their own lands out.
I can see a warrior for a human or dwarf noble and maybe a (non-thiefy) rogue for the human if you headcanon that she trained in fencing from someone like an expatriate Antivan Crow in hiding.
I played through the human noble intro. I've read in spoiler free Reddit threads that it was the weakest one, so I've avoided it. However, I actually think it does a better job to generate investment than either the city elf or dwarf commoner.
I'm mulling over this concept now. Faris Cousland was raised to be a proper lady and hold salons (coercion/persuasion), and she was perfectly capable off behavior befitting her status, but she was more interested in the martial arts. Having previously met a young Antivan expatriate skilled in fencing, she secretly took combat training with him (combat training, dual wield, dirty fighting, below the belt) instead of the more standard combat training that her brother Fergus had. His name was Angelo and, unbeknownst to the people of Highever, the swordsman was a defector of the Antivan Crows in hiding. Faris, always the cunning student (cunning +5) eventually figured it out. She confronted him with her discovery, not to oust him, but out of a curiosity of sorts. For keeping his secret, Angelo also taught her the basics of poisons (poison-making) . It was not long after this that Angelo had to move along from Highever. He said it was to keep ahead of the Crows that might be tracking him. Faris believed it was because they had started developing feelings for each other. Had that played out, it would make things rather complicated considering their stations and situations. Some time after Angelo left, Faris' father gifted her with a mabari. She named the hound 'Angelo' after her mentor and friend.
Because it's a non-thiefy rogue, I'd probably have to take on someone like Leliana for locks/traps if I can't think of a reasonable motivation for my noble to build into it over other combat skills. That would leave Alistair for my tank and then some kind of mage.
But, I'd prefer a more utility rogue with a good reason to get into the fight instead of making a break for it.
Ok, some tweaks for a utility rogue concept. Really heavy on the headcanon, though.
It was her 17th summer when Faris 'Pup' Cousland attended a salon hosted by Lady Landra. The theme for the event was Antivan philosophy and culture. One might have thought that Lady Landra was attempting to curry favor with Lord Fergus' new wife, Lady Oriana (who was from Antiva). Nevertheless, it was an invigorating salon and where Faris met Castello, an Antivan fencing instructor who was performing at the salon.
Faris was immediately captivated by the swordsman, both his martial technique and the man himself. He was eight years her senior and well below her station, but this did not keep her from pursuing his company, albeit keeping their liaisons secret from her family. Her father especially would have forbidden their association.
Soon after they met, Castello's fencing partner was injured in practice and would not be able to perform at the grand exposition planned at the end of the salon. Faris persuaded (coercion) Castello to teach her to fence and take his partner's place. She was a quick study (cunning +3) and light on her feet (dexterity +2). She quickly learned his fighting style (combat training, dual weapon training, dirty fighting) and much more. During their tryst, he revealed he was, in fact, an Antivan Crow. His mission was to assassinate a nobleman who was expected to appear for the grand exposition. This lord took too many liberties with a number of Antivan women during a visit to the country and his transgression could not go unchecked.
For the rest of the salon, an enamoured Faris learned more than just fencing. Castello also taught her other roguish talents (poison making, deft hands). However, Faris' father learned of their comings and goings shortly before the exposition. Fortunately, Castello's identity as an Antivan Crow remained secret. But, the Teyrn believed that even the fencing style was not befitting a noble who was expected to fight with honor on a battlefield. He forbade Faris to continue carrying on with the rogue and kept a closer eye on her for the rest of the salon.
The night before the exposition, Faris met Castello in secret one more time. She loved fencing and still wanted to perform, her father's will be damned. And so that evening, they fenced the night away and even perfected the maneuver that injured Castello's previous partner. The next day, Faris was sat with her family and under guard. Castello boldly approached the Teyrn. The guards readied themselves for an attack and the Antivan struck them all down with a single sentence, "Nobody puts Pup in a corner."
Castello then led Faris to the stage and they performed their routine. It was a perfectly executed display of fencing with an artistry the likes of which none in Highever had ever seen. The audience, including the Teyrn, was left astounded and impressed.
At the end of the summer, Faris and Costello parted. They always knew they were from different worlds and the salon was just an ephemeral haven where a noble and an assassin could ignore that they were exactly that. Their parting was bittersweet, but they would always carry a piece of each other for the rest of their lives. Because of the visibility their performance garnered, and because Castello didn't want to sully what that summer meant to them, he could not finish his assignment at the salon. Instead, he followed the offending nobleman back to his estate and did the deed there.
Faris returned to Highever a changed woman. While the Teryn still had reservations about the fencing, he eventually came around. He respected Faris' determination and skill and no longer saw her as a child. On the Wintersend following that summer, the Teryn gifted Faris with a pair of fencing blades and a mabari. He wasn't offended or even surprised when she named the hound Castello.
As for Faris, she was still a dutiful daughter and fulfilled her role as a noblewoman with the dignity expected. Still, she never would forget that summer when being a noblewoman didn't matter. It was a time when she could just be Faris. It was the time of her life. And while she might not ever see her Antivan paramour again, Faris would never stop fencing.
I'm going to see what I can cook up with a dwarf commoner, though. I think I might be able to do better than satirizing Dirty Dancing.
I played through the human noble intro. I've read in spoiler free Reddit threads that it was the weakest one, so I've avoided it. However, I actually think it does a better job to generate investment than either the city elf or dwarf commoner.
@Antimatter you've piqued my curiosity with the female noble ending so I'll make it work.
I think I can dial down the Dirty Dancing derivation to something more reasonable. I'm generally not a fan of female protagonists relying on romantic hooks anyway.
Much to Aldous' dismay, Faris was not terribly interested in most of her studies. Furthermore, she practiced merely the required basics of the martial arts (combat training) and even then played by her own rules to get by (dirty fighting). As Fergus was next in line to be Teyrn, these matters would be more his domain anyway. Faris was actually a naturally gifted student (cunning +5), but quite preferential in her subjects. She was drawn to the more fantastic stories of the Grey Wardens and the intriguing stories of the Antivan Crows. It was the latter that more prominently colored her youth.
Her brother would eventually be the noble and upstanding Teyrn representing the Cousland name, but who would protect him from the enemies that lurked in the shadows? That was the role Faris envisioned for herself. For this, she taught herself what she could of infiltration and espionage. She would practice her spycraft around the castle by slipping a mild sedative into Nan's tea (poison making), sneaking by her and the guards (stealth), and accessing parts of the castle where she didn't belong (deft hands). Any time her activities were suspect, she could always talk her way out of it (coercion/persuasion).
A few years ago, Faris' father gifted her with a mabari. She wasn't sure if it was for her protection, or if her father caught wind of Faris' clandestine pursuits and the dog was to keep an eye on her. Nevertheless, the hound was her loyal protector, at her side and her command, and certainly wasn't telling anyone her secrets. Just as she would be her brother's shadow, Faris' mabari, Shadow, would be hers.
There's not much to say about this origin. Faris met Duncan and Howe then meandered to her brother to see him off, picking up Shadow along the way. She jimmied every lock that she could, for the practice, but stole nothing. Theft was not the point of it all. She behaved as a proper lady with her family and guests. There was just no gain to behave otherwise, and as the family's self-appointed shadow, it was important to blend in regardless.
Faris was shocked by Howe's betrayal but quickly took to arms and fought beside her mother and Shadow. She kept her mother safely on the bow, whenever possible. Shadow would charge into the fray, and Faris would circle to flank. They advanced carefully so as to not be taken from behind, but made sure to stop by the family treasury and pick up anything of value, including the family sword and shield.
Faris was not going to win the battle that day, but she would escape with her life. She found her father, mortally wounded, by a secret back entrance in the larder. Duncan, the Grey Warden, found his way there as well. He promised her father that he would get Faris to safety, but she would have to join the ranks of the Grey Wardens. Faris' father gave his blessing and Faris' obliged.
It was only Faris and the Grey Warden that left the castle as her mother insisted on staying with her father in his final moments. Faris objected to either staying behind, but they could not be convinced. However, Faris swore they would be avenged.
Notes: I thought I should keep this in the spoiler section. Definitely a stronger origin than the city elf for three reasons.
First, the city elf origin gives you little reason to want to fight with/for the humans and far more reasons not to.
Second, once you kill Vaughn at the end of the origin, your origin story resolves itself. You got your closure on the instigating event. End of story.
Third, the origin is rather non sequitur. It tells a solid story about the standing of elves in a predominantly human world, but that premise doesn't really have a connection to the A-story. I think the city elf origin would have been better expanded into a mini adventure like some of the DLC modules.
But, back to the human noble. I only have one real nit. If Cousland has made it to the exit and is a rogue with stealth, do I really need Duncan at that point? I could just add easily Also, and this might be a little fourth wall breaking, but I managed to snag a greater healing poultice from a lieutenant. Surely, that could have patched up pops enough to get him out of there. Very minor nits, though.
Meanwhile, I like having the origin end with an unfulfilled quest for vengeance. And, the line, "It's up to our children now," really drove the point home. Finally, the origin does a good job plugging into the A-story.
I know this origin did its job because I'm going to keep the Family sword. And, even though I'm sure I'll have better weapons when this happens, that is the weapon I'm going to use to kill Howe.
So, I started with pure utility, but the origin set the stage to start building combat skills. Faris actually reached second level right before going to bed. I guess all the lockpicking and codex collecting added up. She reached level 3 during the attack. I don't recall Tabris or Brosca getting two levels in the origin, but I could be remembering wrong.
Anyway, Faris took improved combat training then dual wield 1 and 2. I can't get DW 3 until level 9, so I can focus on utility for a while. However, levels 6-8 talents will probably be spent getting to lethality, at which time I'll definitely need to commit to double daggers. Right now, it's the probably suboptimal Family Sword + dagger for sentimental reasons.
As for stats, I have read a bit on the dex vs. cun conversation. My takeaway is that you don't really need to choose one over the other. The raw damage boost you get from cun is mitigated by the accuracy penalty you get from ignoring dex. A melee rogue ends up stronger in one area over another if they lean to one side, but a character isn't ruined if you stay in the middle. I think cun is ultimately more important for this character, but I don't want to be whiffing and need at least in the mid 20s for Dex just for talents. So I'll aim for that to start by going 1:2 Dex:Cun at level ups for now.
For my dual wielders, especially my more melee-focused rogues, I actually go for strength over cunning while making Dex my main stat, sort of balancing the two lesser stats but preferring strength. My goal is to get it to at least 22-26 as soon as possible. This gives you more variety in weapon and armor choice which can lead to greater damage and defense, letting you use some of those sweet enchanted swords with powerful effects, and you don't have to pump either one past 30. This gives you plenty of leeway to focus on pumping Dex to a satisfying degree, well beyond what you need for talents.
Both dex, cunning, and strength rogues are viable if played correctly, so don't overthink it too much.
I glad you found one of the origin stories that connected for you. There should be good story opportunities later. I'm not sure how far you've been as far as areas of the map, but all the racial territories past Lothering have stories that I remember as connecting racially. At least I used to think "I'd be reacting to this differently if I were playing an elf", or "I'd be reacting to this differently if I were playing a dwarf", or "I'd be reacting to this differently if I were a woman."
I almost never play non-human races, but I always thought that fighting the Darkspawn might be a good enough motivation for a character of any race to attempt to join the Grey Wardens. The Darkspawn threaten all life on the surface if they're not defeated, so it's not like they're going to Blight all human lands and then stop there. No one anywhere will be safe if they get out of control.
I've only done the human mage origin, but that story had me *very* motivated to join the Grey Wardens, because the alternative for that character would have been bad. Like, really, really bad. It was a case of "Join the Wardens, or else." So it never would have occurred to me that the other origins might have less satisfying character motivation provided.
Although, I think you're more critical (critical in the academic sense) of rpg stories than I am, because you seem to enjoy game stories the most that can pass a moderate degree of literary criticism. I wonder how many games hold up under that lens?
As far as the Joining scene, somehow I had always thought that it was a "no backsies" kind of deal. Once you know the secret (you might die, 50-50 chance), you must be executed if you refuse to drink the demon blood, because very few people if anyone would agree to join the Wardens if they knew about the Joining. That information comes with an NDA enforced with a death penalty.
So, my reaction to Rory's execution was to be sad, but I understood why Duncan had to do it. As my character, I was in way too deep at that point to do anything but continue on as a Warden.
I hope you keep playing and posting your reactions. You're getting me more and more interested in starting a run of my own soon, so I can remember more clearly what it was like. I always thought it was a great game, although it never motivated me to keep replaying annually like Baldur's Gate, MIght and Magic 6-8, or various MMO's and ARPG games do.
I thought about all that, especially because of my now sentimental attachment to the family sword. Plus, I'm sure I'm going to need at least some strength for the higher tier leather armors. However, I'm fine with sticking to dual daggers once I have appropriate choices there. Also, I want to be as cunning focused as I can for the sake of the utility skills. My plan is to (temporarily) pass the family sword to Alistair after the Ostegar battle to cheer him up a little and then make my rogue a blender with two daggers.
but all the racial territories past Lothering have stories that I remember as connecting racially. At least I used to think "I'd be reacting to this differently if I were playing an elf", or "I'd be reacting to this differently if I were playing a dwarf", or "I'd be reacting to this differently if I were a woman."
That's one of the things that I thought was clever about the human noble origin. You aren't given the slightest clue in that origin how bad elves actually have it, which makes sense considering the position of a human noble. There might have been something in one or two of the codex entries you pick up in the castle, but nothing close to what you learn in the city elf origin.
I've only done the human mage origin, but that story had me *very* motivated to join the Grey Wardens, because the alternative for that character would have been bad. Like, really, really bad. It was a case of "Join the Wardens, or else." So it never would have occurred to me that the other origins might have less satisfying character motivation provided.
I think that you could say the same about city elf and dwarf commoner. It's basically Wardens or death. Naturally, you're picking the Wardens, but I can't imagine many/most of these characters would be happy about it. And, once the Battle of Ostegar is over, you have every reason to let yourself off the hook.
Although, I think you're more critical (critical in the academic sense) of rpg stories than I am, because you seem to enjoy game stories the most that can pass a moderate degree of literary criticism. I wonder how many games hold up under that lens?
You are 100% absolutely right here. For me, the gameplay in most RPGs hovers around "just ok". But, what hooks me into the RPG is the stories that are created by your choices and the level of immersion this creates. I can generally forgive not good gameplay in an RPG, but bad writing kills suspension of disbelief which undermines (for me) one of the main purposes of playing an RPG. It's almost like a play where I'm both the audience and the actor.
That being said, I could think of a fair number of games that pass muster for me when it comes to the story. Some of them aren't even RPGs, though. Half-Life 2, Doom 3 (ikr!), Deus Ex, Bioshock, System Shock, Thief: The Dark Project (minus the bonus levels/DLC content) and as much as I could play of the Silent Hill games before chickening out all did a great job of drawing me in. For RPGs, many of the pre-X Final Fantasy titles hit the mark, as did Chrono Trigger/Cross. Of course, there's Planescape: Torment. But, I would even put Icewind Dale in there. IWD had a rather simple story, but they kept it tight and leveraged their setting quite well. The early Fallout games did pretty well. They were just a little campy, but in an intentional way that was well executed. Fallout: New Vegas was slightly better than ok (would have been better if they had more time to do what they intended with the main quest), but I still rate it high because the DLCs were just amazing for writing.
Some of these stories that are wins for me are not these epic and elaborate tales. Simple can work if it is done well. Take this short, for example. Frankly, the action prior to the swordfight with the fox spirit (i.e. magical flying sword stuff) is a little too wuxia for me. But, to the point, it quickly establishes a premise and has a really great callback to that premise. The part where Arthur's father says that one thing that helps Arthur figure out who his real father is literally gave me chills and closed the loop on the story in a very satisfying way. Very simple story. Nailed it.
So, my reaction to Rory's execution was to be sad, but I understood why Duncan had to do it. As my character, I was in way too deep at that point to do anything but continue on as a Warden.
I agree with everything you said, but I still question one side of it or the other. On one side, Duncan might not have fully checked the "you knew the risks when you took the job" box in recruiting. On the other side (and this is the side I favor), Duncan should have pegged that some clearly skittish/mopey palace knight with a pregnant wife was probably not a good pick. But, even getting past that and working with what we have, a better play (for so many reasons) would have been to have Jory drink first, die, and then Daveth be the one that tries to bail (even drawing a weapon to fight his way out if needed).
Or, another option would have been to have Daveth drink first, survive, then Jory drink and die (Jory dying from the Joining itself is a story win either way). Daveth then could have been your "tower guard" for the Ostegar battle (and maybe the mage could have worked out to be the one that Alistair riled up in the cutscene where you meet him). But Daveth either could have had an epic death in the end of battle cutscene or Flemeth only saved Alistair and you because she only had two talons with which to work. Or hell, it could have been both. Epic cutscene of some massive bird snatching Alistair and you from the top of the tower and the last thing you see before blacking out is Daveth left behind and suffering a grizzly death at the hands of a horde of darkspawn.
I'll stop there. All I'm saying is that there were just many better options for handling that part of the story. I'm not expecting perfect, but when I see a story and I start wondering why something happened while a half dozen ways it could have been handled better pop into my head, I'm now out of the story which puts my head out of the game.
There's not much to say about the Wilds as there was no real character interaction besides that with Morrigan and Flemeth. Faris found the pair to be quite outlandish, but was still polite, if only for the sake of diplomacy. The party returned to Ostegar having completed their quests and prepared for the ritual. Faris did question Duncan after Jory's murder. She understood his rationale, but it still did not set right with her. Still, she had little choice in the matter and so she fulfilled her own Joining and survived. Duncan paired her with Alistair immediately for her first assignment as a Grey Warden. They were to climb Ostegar's tower and light the signal beacon so the flanking contingent would know when to come out of hiding and strike. They fulfilled their mission, but were overrun by darkspawn shortly thereafter.
Faris picked up a skill point along the way and bumped up coercion. The few talent points she picked up went to build towards lethality, though she also took combat movement. She'll have a spare point before level 8 and that will go to either stealth or deft hands. I'm doing 2:1 str and dex for Alistair and focusing on shield talents. Once his str gets to a good place, I'll probably flip the ratio and go to dex for better evasion.
The fights were pretty easy. I had four archers for the wilds and many fights ended before the mobs could close the distance. I found two areas that I've missed on my previous passes. The first was a den with an alpha wolf and some treasure. The second was a pile of stones that summoned some kind of spirit. Both fights finished without anyone dropping, but the spirit's flame blast definitely hurt. No great treasures to report, though, aside from an enchanted dagger picked up from an alpha hurlock by the Grey Warden ruins. This replaced Faris' common one, but she's still using the family sword in the main hand.
The tower went the same as it did for Revna, with one small twist. Apparently, Faris (i.e. the human noble) got her dog back which takes the place of the tower guard for the tower levels. Nice, but now I'm down an archer. It's hardly a loss, though as Dog has Death Howl which is proving to be a great disabler. None of it worked against the Ogre, but kiting and archery made that fight cake.
Just to take a little inventory, Faris is at str 11, dex 21, cun 29. She has coercion 2, poisons 1, and expert combat training for skills. Her talents are combat movement, deadly strike, deft hands, stealthy item use, and dual weapon finesse. She's level 6, but set up for lethality, combat stealth, and dual weapon finesse for levels 8, 9, and 10. That leaves 7 up for grabs and that will probably be improved tools.
I think that, rather than summarize a story that everyone here knows, I'll just give my take on it.
The scene at Flemeth's hut would have been a good point to substantiate your character taking a leadership role over Alistair. The simple solution would have been for Duncan's death to hit him harder and leave him in a state of despair. Your character takes the lead at that point because Alistair isn't in any state to do so.
It sounds like the plan is to visit various areas where you recruit an army to fight the blight. Alistair could pull himself out of his funk after your first successful recruitment, acknowledge that you remained strong when he couldn't, and that would be why he defers to your leadership. Plot hole filled.
Also, I take back my idea that Alistair should have been killed in the tower to sort out why your brand spanking new warden character is running things. What I proposed above would work just as well. Plus, I just had a camp conversation with him where he tells me all about his bastard (fatherless) past. It was a somewhat long conversation so I'm suspecting it's going to grow into a key plot point. I don't think we're going to find out the Arl was his father all along. My money is on Alistair actually being the bastard of the king, not the one that died with Duncan, but that king's father. I have a few reasons for thinking this. One, they killed off the king in Act I. Two, obviously Loghain is going to be dealt with, leaving a vacuum where Ferelden needs a new king. I mean, the queen could take over, but they've done nothing to establish her character, so I think she's basically just a prop. Three, there is a bit of a resemblance between Alistair and the dead king (which is a bit of a stretch, but still).
I'm any event, the party did a little side questing in Lothering and picked up Leliana and Sten. Sten and Dog went to the camp, though I'm questioning that choice. I don't really need another rogue. I bet Leliana can build into a good archer, but Alistair could use some help holding the line. Aside from that, the banter between Morrigan and Alistair has already gone from cute to annoying. Morrigan is an ill fit with this group and I suspect she will just be sitting in camp before long.
In Lothering, Faris picked up a new dagger as well as an amulet to reduce hostility, which should help her weave through combat. She also signed on to help a mercenary group looking to regain their honor as well as the local chantry. You can't have too many friends, especially since Loghain put a bounty on their heads.
They had a lot of options for their next destination, but the circle mages and Redcliffe seemed the most urgent. It would probably be more likely a nobleperson would seek out other nobles first. However, it sounds like the mages are about to go nuclear and the circle gives Faris a better chance of finding a replacement for Morgana. However to the however, I think Morgana would actually be more useful than Leliana. On top of that, I had a camp conversation with her that left me with a hunch she's going to bring more to the story. I don't have a strong pull either way, but I'm sensing a story of either betrayal or redemption. For all that I don't like mages, I may be tempted by a two mage party.
I ultimately decided on the circle first. I swapped out Leliana for Shadow before heading there. Some of the fights in the forest north of Lothering were a bit hairy for Alistair, so I wanted a little more muscle on the front line.
Huh, I wonder if Morgana the character (Morgan le Fay) actually influenced Gaider's decision to name her Morrigan. Probably?
It's so fun to read your thoughts on the events, the hints, and what you think about the characters. Morrigan & Alistair banter will continue. If you're worried if it'll get more annoying, no, it'll get back to hilarious.
A 2 mage party would absolutely work. Sten is a rough character, and hard to use at the beginning of the game (not enough tankiness compared to a shield-wearer, not enough power compared to a mage).
Morrigan and Dog can also be quite funny together, although you'll see some of that in camp whether you take them out in the field together or not, iirc.
Also, I've always loved the character of Flemeth and wished they did even more with her. I don't want to go into spoiler territory with that, though. I may be biased because she's voiced by Kate Mulgrew (Captain Janeway), one of my favorite actresses since she did Star Trek.
Did you catch that Morrigan is Claudia Black, of Farscape and Stargate sci-fi fame?
I can't wait to see how you react as you find out more about whether your hunches are correct or not and what your choices will be. The game is very reactive to your RP choices, so it could go several different ways by the end.
I can't wait to see how you react as you find out more about whether your hunches are correct or not and what your choices will be. The game is very reactive to your RP choices, so it could go several different ways by the end.
That is the biggest strength of this game. Your choices have an observable impact, in the later stages of the game, the various post-game DLC's, and the sequels.
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