The "Let's complain about our jobs" Thread

[m7600]

I know, I know. This thread might get deleted. But, for what it's worth, we might keep it around for a few days just to vent a bit and hopefully also laugh. You don't need to give any specific details, of course.

I'll start by saying that I'm furious at the moment, because someone else got the promotion that I should have gotten. Why, you ask? Well, my Curriculum Vitae is just better. But since I'm not in the habit of ass-kissing, I wasn't the one selected.

I understand that stuff like this happens in every job. And I would say that in most jobs there's probably some sort of justification for it. But I work in Academia, for fuck's sake, we're supposed to be objective. My CV is objectively better in this case. I have more publications, more presentations at congresses, symposiums, etc., and more experience as a teacher. I just find it disgusting that the subjective traits of the people involve end up being more important than CVs in the context of so-called "higher learning".

Phew. I had to get that off my chest.

What about you? Has anything bothered you at work lately?

 

[JustKneller]

Why would this thread get deleted? It qualifies as off-topic, right?

If it's any consolation, I can empathize. A long time ago, on a resume far, far away, I was also in academia. The #1 reason why I left was the juvenile office politics supplanting integrity and the pursuit of quality work. I felt like I went from high school, to college, and then back to high school. It makes a professional world that could be bigger and greater than what it is so much smaller (and pettier) than it needs to be.

As for my job now, I work in the private sector for a large corporation. My job could actually be pretty damn perfect, except for one thing. People in my role are paired up with people in a different role in our department. The person with whom I'm partnered is a bit of a basket case and regularly makes simple things far more complicated than they need to be, and does it in a way where I don't have really any avenues to push back. As a result, a job that I could streamline down to about 10-15 hours a week on the down low is now a 50-60 hour a week job on the regular. I've considered a number of options for moving to a slightly different role or trying to get a different partner, but long story short, I'm just kinda stuck with this for now.

 

[m7600]

Why would this thread get deleted? It qualifies as off-topic, right?

Well, yeah, but since the Tavern leans more on the cozy side of things, a bitchy thread like this is kind of a mood killer. But hey, it's just one negative thread in an otherwise wholesome forum, for the most part.

Thanks for sharing your story, it's quite interesting. Lately I've been daydreaming of switching jobs, I used to really like what I do at the University (and I still mostly do), but I feel like it's getting downhill instead of uphill for me lately. Maybe I could start a YouTube channel or something, lol.

 

[O_Bruce]

You know, there's no need to delete this thread. We can make this a "vent your emotions" kind of a thread. I don't see a problem with that, since the community is wholesome and I believe people here are willing to listen and show support when needed. Also, while venting in itself won't fix the root of a given problem, emotional ventilation combined with well-intentioned feedback can guide the person in the right direction.

Keeping the thread on a jobs thought, I do understand what do you mean, as I had feeling of academia's objectivity and purpose fading away in favour of, more often than not, politics. I don't have a reception for this, it's just an observation combined with feedback from other people.

I also understand quiting your job over feeling negative about your workplace, integrity included. This is why I left public healthcare to pursuit other career paths. Corruption, mess in a paperwork, disregarding patients, and so and so on. I feel ashamed to work in a place meant to help people out of all things. Further job opportunities weren't much better.

I think I cannot be happy working unless I'll have my own business stable and running.

 

[JustKneller]

Well, yeah, but since the Tavern leans more on the cozy side of things

Compared to the rest of the Internet, the idea that a thread like this might be considered too negative is one of the reasons I like this place so much. As an aside, I had considered doing my LPs on Something Awful's forums because they were so active there. However, as the name implies it's a pretty awful (toxic) place so I'd gladly take a smaller but more constructive community.

 

[OrlonKronsteen]

What about you? Has anything bothered you at work lately?

I laughed aloud when I read this. The appropriate question for me would be 'has anything not bothered you at work lately?'

I sympathize with all of you, and am not shy about saying that my 'career' has been an exercise in sheer futility and sand pounding frustration. Underemployed? Check. Under paid? Check. Passed by for promotion time and time again? Check. Upper management so incompetent that if I told you actual stories you wouldn't believe them? Check. Too old to ever get another job? Check.

That is my situation, and there's nothing I can do about it, lol. Thanks for listening. I'd share more (some of my stories are pretty damn funny) but I'm actually paranoid that someone in my org might recognize me from an anecdote - even on an obscure (but wonderful) site such as this. To quote Red (from Rita Hayworth and Shawshank redemption), "I'm an institutional man, now."

 

[mlnevese]

Unless you are directly offending someone, I think it's pretty unlikely we'll delete a thread. At most move it to the right subforum if it's created in the wrong place. Or hold a post and ask the person to edit something that breaks the forum rules.

 

[Antimatter]

Thanks for starting this thread. We're not looking for an "ideal" discussion space where no negative points are raised - that would be bad. We're looking for constructive discussions, so this topic is totally valid and fine.

I made a career pivot 8 years ago, changed jobs, and never looked back. Fortunately, for my current job, I don't have many complaints, probably the biggest one is related to the game industry crisis and no pay increases because of negative financial records. There is also a fear of losing this job because of so many other layoffs, of course.

 

[JustKneller]

Fortunately, for my current job, I don't have many complaints, probably the biggest one is related to the game industry crisis and no pay increases because of negative financial records. There is also a fear of losing this job because of so many other layoffs, of course.

I feel for you. The first thing I did after leaving academia was get into game design. My background was pretty well suited for it and I wanted to use my knowledge for something "fun" and interesting. Really, though, it was just a side hustle consultancy while I worked out my next play. I worked on a fair amount of tabletop (RPG/Board) games, but also system design for a few computer games. I made very little money (a pittance compared to occasionally counting cards at a nearby casino, which was my other hustle) and most of the projects couldn't even make it to the finish line and just landed in development hell. It's a tough market, and a tough industry where the attempted growth is outstripping market growth. This was over 10 years ago. I can only imagine what now looks like.

I worked out the math based on numbers from some indie designers I knew and calculated that most who were even making money were making around USD$2-3 an hour. I mean, that's great pay for spending time on a hobby. But, when I considered the work they put into sales and distribution vs creation, I realized that too much of that time is work and not enough hobby so $2-3 wasn't worth the sweat to me. I never even tried to sell any of the games I've created myself. They mostly just hit the tables with my gaming pals.

I've recently been considering a change myself. My current career is pretty cush for the most part, but not remotely fulfilling. However, I've come to find that anything I enjoy doing won't earn a living. C'est la vie.

 

[m7600]

@JustKneller That's really interesting. When you were working on games (tabletop as well as software), did you ever use something like Patreon? Or DriveThruRPGs / The Dungeon Master's Guild? These are options that I'm considering myself. The first two would give me the most freedom, but the DM's Guild could have more potential for growth.

 

[JustKneller]

@m7600 I never really worked on the financial end, but the folks with whom I worked liked Patreon, even though the return was quite variable and took some extra effort. DTRPG was a little mixed because they take an obscene 30-35% cut for even just digital products, but you also get way more exposure there. The DM Guild is a little weird and tricky. That is, WotC wants to make as much money as they can and a lot of designers were complaining that the returns weren't great and it was a bit of a brutal rat race to make it worth it. However, I also heard that the new OGL for 5e was far more limiting than what they had in the 3e days so it was almost like you had to join the guild to make money. I could be wrong about it, though. Nobody I worked with dealt with the GM Guild, so my impressions are just based on general chatter.

I wouldn't have any good advice for tabletop avenues these days. The indie bubble burst and the market is oversaturated with hacks rushing whatever they can to market to make a few bucks. Itch.io was barely good for a minute until the shills flooded it with low-effort trash. Even DTRPG is now questionable, at best, for the value. On top of that, because of how much solicitation is out there for the trash, it's near impossible for anything good to float to the surface. Actual players straight up ignore the indie RPG subreddit because it's all ads. And because of the large number of shills that post to the other subreddits, anyone who tries to get visibility there gets downvoted.

For myself, I haven't spent anything on tabletop since probably 2000ish (when I started homebrew/designing). At first, I wasn't finding the games that did what I wanted a game to do. Then, when the saturation happened, I couldn't find anything good in all that mess. Near the end of my heavy design days (I mostly just dabble now), a fellow designer and I worked on plans to make some kinda of metasite where we could establish some quality control and feature the more talented designers we could find. But really, those kinds of things can get ugly political and/or turn into just another Otaku or Polygon.

 

[m7600]

Thanks a ton for your reply @JustKneller, I really appreciate it.

Hmm... seems like Patreon would be the best option, all things considered. I'm really into open source / free software, so my idea would be to make some game materials (not necessarily entire games, just materials, like adventure modules) and make them free to download. I would then set up a Patreon account and just accept donations. Or maybe a pay what you want model would be less of a hassle, I don't know. I'm aware that I'm probably not going to turn this into a living, but every cent helps, and I'd like to do something fulfilling with my time even though it doesn't necessarily mean that I will get good returns.

 

[JustKneller]

@m7600 By all accounts I've heard, designers who use Patreon as a tip jar like it, even more so than sites designed to be a tip jar like Buy Me a Coffee. They only take a 5% cut and I heard it's really easy to use. I haven't used it myself, but I've heard you could create some kind of membership to your Patreon where people aren't even charged regularly and possibly even are charged nothing, but are essentially subscribers to be kept in the loop on developments. This would be handy as it functions as a temperature check for something like Kickstarter.

 

[shmity72]

3 years of university 2 years of video production school supported simultaneously working full time running IHOP.

2003 was my last job. I was paid to meditate by cleaning tropical fish tanks in a quiet mom and pop 'tropical paradise'. (as my father would say: i am 'bare ass lucky')

money is fiat. one cannot eat it. one's dreams are all that's real.

p.s. IHOP taught me the most: how to direct market, sell smiles for rent, maximize time efficiency, how to stop care/judging whether someone will see you as 'worthy' of a good tip to pay your rent and just 'do your damn job' and let the chips fall.

 

[shmity72]

I know, I know. This thread might get deleted. But, for what it's worth, we might keep it around for a few days just to vent a bit and hopefully also laugh. You don't need to give any specific details, of course.

I'll start by saying that I'm furious at the moment, because someone else got the promotion that I should have gotten. Why, you ask? Well, my Curriculum Vitae is just better. But since I'm not in the habit of ass-kissing, I wasn't the one selected.

I understand that stuff like this happens in every job. And I would say that in most jobs there's probably some sort of justification for it. But I work in Academia, for fuck's sake, we're supposed to be objective. My CV is objectively better in this case. I have more publications, more presentations at congresses, symposiums, etc., and more experience as a teacher. I just find it disgusting that the subjective traits of the people involve end up being more important than CVs in the context of so-called "higher learning".

Phew. I had to get that off my chest.

What about you? Has anything bothered you at work lately?

I have no qualifications but running restaurants and maintaining tropical fish stores. I'm making NO judgement here m7600 leaving it to you. also, I'm sorry you were skipped over. My wife has been skipped over corporate avp 3 years running. i feel yah. likewise I agree academia should advance upon objective purposes rather than glad handers. And so is the state of our culture. DON'T GIVE UP I believe in you.

 

[BelgarathMTH]

Okay, I'll jump on board with a vent. I secretly hate my job and wish more than anything I could completely retire and quit. I can't tell anybody in my real life that for lots of reasons.

I'm a classical musician and teacher. I'm also severely hearing impaired, which remained untreated for far too long in my life. So, the performance part of my career was marred by the fact that I couldn't hear what the heck I was doing on my viola. People thought I was just "bad" when the problem was that I couldn't hear. Despite that, I struggled my way through half my career in the symphony orchestra. The more negative feedback I got, and the more pressure to do better and perform perfectly, the more I started to hate it. I remember sitting one night during break at rehearsal actually wishing I had a fatal disease so I could get out of any more symphony work.

Then there's the teaching side of my career. I love both performing classical music and teaching instruments when it's going well. When it's going badly, well, it's *really* bad, especially for my introverted personality type. Kid drama, parent drama, personality conflicts with other musicians, disagreements about how things should be played and taught, constant judgment and negative feedback of all kinds. It's an introvert's nightmare every day on either of my jobs. I often wonder if my life might have been better if I'd become an accountant.

In youth, I thought I'd become a minister of music in my church. I went as far as to get a divinity degree from the University of Chicago. With more knowledge about the fields of philosophy, religion, history, and psychology, I started to question everything I'd ever been taught about my faith. That, and being gay, led to a slew of personal drama that would eventually lead me to become an atheist (many years later, after many struggles). So, my entire education in sacred music and divinity were a non-starter for getting a job and making a living. I'd "wasted" my entire education up through my master's degree.

I got a music education degree and a teaching license with two more years of school. Started on a public-school career. Within the first year, started to realize how much I hated it. Student behavior issues and drama, for an introverted personality with average to below average charisma at best - recipe for disaster. So, I hated everything about the jobs I had trained for, lost my love of practicing and performing music, had wasted my entire seven years of higher education, and felt ready to die at the ripe old age of 24.

I quit my public-school jobs eventually and did temp office work for a year or two. Then I got a frankly life-saving opportunity to become a private music teacher for a conservatory.

It's only part time work, but years of financial assistance and an eventual inheritance from my beloved, life-saving grandparents left me in the end with a house I own outright, so I was able to make part-time teaching work.

I don't even want to do that any more. It's fulfilling when it's going well, stressful as heck when there's a bad student and ensuing drama, same as always. I'd be so happy if I could just stay home and never have to deal with a live person again apart from buying groceries, but that's not happening. Because I've only been working part time for so many years, my American social security in four years from now will not be nearly enough for expenses. I have an emergency fund that is dwindling with each new emergency (leaking tubs, leaking toilet, car repairs, broken garage door, HVAC trouble, veterinarian bills on one of my cats, it never stops).

I feel trapped in a job I don't want to do any more. Normal people will find it ridiculous that I can work for about three hours per weekday plus supporting duties and recitals, and I still don't even want to do that. I know it could be so much worse, and many might be jealous of my situation, but I feel so burned out, and so trapped.

Oh well, if you read all that, thank you for letting me vent.

 

[JustKneller]

Oh well, if you read all that, thank you for letting me vent.

Wow, there was so much in there that I can either relate to or envy.

I've always wanted to go to seminary and looked into it a number of times. There were two things that kept me from pulling the trigger. One, it's (perhaps ironically) prohibitively expensive. I did all my other graduate degrees without paying a cent through tuition waivers and assistanceships, but apparently it wasn't an option for seminary. The other reason is that, I guess the only way to put it, is that I'm somewhat of a pantheist, much like Houston Smith (RIP). I found it hard to find my stride in that scene when I don't follow any one particular thing. However, I didn't even find out about Houston Smith, comparative theology, and the like until recent years. If I had the right mentorship, who knows what could have happened. And you went to Chicago? I'm pretty sure that's the NRC #1 school for Divinity (and other things, for that matter).

That being said, there's tons of denominations that are LGBTQIA+ friendly. Then again, based on what you've said, I'm guessing this is around 30ish years ago? I presume there were zero gay-friendly denominations at that time (maybe the Unitarians?). Yeah, I can see how it all can be off-putting. However, one of my favorite lines from one of my favorite movies goes, "Quand le doigt montre le ciel, l'imbécile regarde le doigt." That is, "When a finger points to the sky, only a fool looks at the finger." In this case, the church is the finger and honest spirituality is the sky. I went through a whole phase of throwing the baby out with the bathwater with church until I heard this. This sentiment helped me cut through a lot of nonsense.

I also started music as a kid. My first instrument was violin (almost a viola, right?). I actually really liked it, but I didn't have the right fit for a teacher, and my education (music and otherwise) was in the worst school system in the state, so that was another miss for me. But, different circumstances, what could have been, right? I did end up getting back into music on my own terms, but it was a guitar, a punk band, a whole lot of drama and nonsense, and then quitting music entirely. I have young children now. My plan is, when they're a little older, we'll all do music lessons together. I'll bang off the rust, and it will be a cool family thing to do.

Coincidentally, degenerative hearing also runs in my family. It's already started for me, but I'm mostly ok still. My mother is deaf as a doornail without her hearing aids, though, so I know it's coming for me.

I also did a short stint in public school teaching (social sciences). Middle schoolers were pretty cool, but high schoolers generally sucked. Admin was god awful almost across the board. Success was only in spite of the system, not because of it. I completely lost my love for it when I was fired from a job by the principal for "fraternizing with the students". What actually happened was that a group of "outcast" kids were being tracked for trade school by the adminstration. I was spending my lunch break and their study hall helping them prep for the (P)SATs and learn about funding opportunities for college. I mean, there's nothing wrong with trade school, but these kids wanted to go to university and they were smart kids (just "rebels", and so the larger admin wanted to throw them away). I was able to make my case against the principal (which didn't do his career any favors), but the profession was soured for me, so I still moved on.

At this point, my wife and I have had a few real conversations about me quitting work and being a stay-at-home dad. She's all for it, but we can't make the money work. The job I have now isn't even close to the worst job I've ever had, (objectively) I really can't complain, but I'm just over it and don't care anymore. There are so many other more worthwhile things to do with my time.

TLDR: I hear you, man.

 

[m7600]

@BelgarathMTH thanks for sharing. If I may, I'd like to offer some modest advice: start a punk rock band, or an avant-garde solo project, or something similar. No, really, I'm not joking. I play the piano. Not professionally, mind you, I'm just an amateur. But when I was younger I was obsessed with jazz and classical music. I was never good at any of those styles though, because let's be honest, they are incredibly difficult and demanding styles to learn, let alone master. So I started a rock band with some friends and I just sort of winged it, I didn't feel pressured to play crazy chord progressions or complicated melodies because... it was just a rock band. Way more laid back and musically forgiving than jazz or classical. I basically made do with a couple of pentatonic scales and a lot of blue note spamming. It was a lot of fun. With your knowledge of theory, you could do a heck of a lot more than I did. Just have fun with it. You can even throw the theory out the window a la Cecil Taylor and do something really experimental.

 

[shmity72]

Okay, I'll jump on board with a vent. I secretly hate my job and wish more than anything I could completely retire and quit. I can't tell anybody in my real life that for lots of reasons.

I'm a classical musician and teacher. I'm also severely hearing impaired, which remained untreated for far too long in my life. So, the performance part of my career was marred by the fact that I couldn't hear what the heck I was doing on my viola. People thought I was just "bad" when the problem was that I couldn't hear. Despite that, I struggled my way through half my career in the symphony orchestra. The more negative feedback I got, and the more pressure to do better and perform perfectly, the more I started to hate it. I remember sitting one night during break at rehearsal actually wishing I had a fatal disease so I could get out of any more symphony work.

Then there's the teaching side of my career. I love both performing classical music and teaching instruments when it's going well. When it's going badly, well, it's *really* bad, especially for my introverted personality type. Kid drama, parent drama, personality conflicts with other musicians, disagreements about how things should be played and taught, constant judgment and negative feedback of all kinds. It's an introvert's nightmare every day on either of my jobs. I often wonder if my life might have been better if I'd become an accountant.

In youth, I thought I'd become a minister of music in my church. I went as far as to get a divinity degree from the University of Chicago. With more knowledge about the fields of philosophy, religion, history, and psychology, I started to question everything I'd ever been taught about my faith. That, and being gay, led to a slew of personal drama that would eventually lead me to become an atheist (many years later, after many struggles). So, my entire education in sacred music and divinity were a non-starter for getting a job and making a living. I'd "wasted" my entire education up through my master's degree.

I got a music education degree and a teaching license with two more years of school. Started on a public-school career. Within the first year, started to realize how much I hated it. Student behavior issues and drama, for an introverted personality with average to below average charisma at best - recipe for disaster. So, I hated everything about the jobs I had trained for, lost my love of practicing and performing music, had wasted my entire seven years of higher education, and felt ready to die at the ripe old age of 24.

I quit my public-school jobs eventually and did temp office work for a year or two. Then I got a frankly life-saving opportunity to become a private music teacher for a conservatory.

It's only part time work, but years of financial assistance and an eventual inheritance from my beloved, life-saving grandparents left me in the end with a house I own outright, so I was able to make part-time teaching work.

I don't even want to do that any more. It's fulfilling when it's going well, stressful as heck when there's a bad student and ensuing drama, same as always. I'd be so happy if I could just stay home and never have to deal with a live person again apart from buying groceries, but that's not happening. Because I've only been working part time for so many years, my American social security in four years from now will not be nearly enough for expenses. I have an emergency fund that is dwindling with each new emergency (leaking tubs, leaking toilet, car repairs, broken garage door, HVAC trouble, veterinarian bills on one of my cats, it never stops).

I feel trapped in a job I don't want to do any more. Normal people will find it ridiculous that I can work for about three hours per weekday plus supporting duties and recitals, and I still don't even want to do that. I know it could be so much worse, and many might be jealous of my situation, but I feel so burned out, and so trapped.

Oh well, if you read all that, thank you for letting me vent.

Thank you for sharing. I'm extremely proud of my gay son and his husband. They are excellent citizens thank you for sharing. As far as seminary school eh... there is Hebrew and then there is the 'interpretation thereof'. I think in one chapter this Jesus fellow called the clergy hypocrite 8 x ...they don't always teach that part lol. long story short I denounced Christianity for my first 50 years, even having studied the new testament. now? I'm Christian. The archetype is real to me...I'll never believe as the person above says in the 'finger' aka brick and mortar shepherds of the gospel. We all have God in our heart beat. Again. Thank you. advice? none. vision? as you practice your viola practice your joy. 650 a month on social security disability for a decade in Seattle. The USA treats it's disabled in a special kind of below the poverty line...this is a quote from the James:

James 1:2-3

King James Version

​

2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

 

[shmity72]

I know, I know. This thread might get deleted. But, for what it's worth, we might keep it around for a few days just to vent a bit and hopefully also laugh. You don't need to give any specific details, of course.

I'll start by saying that I'm furious at the moment, because someone else got the promotion that I should have gotten. Why, you ask? Well, my Curriculum Vitae is just better. But since I'm not in the habit of ass-kissing, I wasn't the one selected.

I understand that stuff like this happens in every job. And I would say that in most jobs there's probably some sort of justification for it. But I work in Academia, for fuck's sake, we're supposed to be objective. My CV is objectively better in this case. I have more publications, more presentations at congresses, symposiums, etc., and more experience as a teacher. I just find it disgusting that the subjective traits of the people involve end up being more important than CVs in the context of so-called "higher learning".

Phew. I had to get that off my chest.

What about you? Has anything bothered you at work lately?

Critical thinking involves analyzing information, identifying biases, and making logical decisions. Here are some examples of critical thinking.. I'm very sorry for you. In our current cultural climate even in the highest institutions of learning these deductive skills are not adhered to. you'll get'm next time.