Tyranny - General Discussion and No-reload/Ironman Thread

alice_ashpool

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Tyranny No-Reload/Discussion

Moving on to try and go 2 for 2 with a Tyranny Ironman run.

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Tyranny is known primarily for its gripping and heterodox story, its poor sales, its unfinished/truncated length, and its detailed spell-crafting system. It has Pillars of Eternity style combat. it has a dedicated "Ironman" mode and four difficulties.

I have never completed the game, but I do have a decent grasp of the combat system which takes some getting used to if you are not familiar with Pillars of Eternity - working on global and ability cooldowns, once per encounter and once per rest abilities in a Real Time with Pause system. The cooldown system means you will be pausing a lot. More than even a Vancian derived cRPG.

Tyranny No Reload - Attempt 1 - Update 1

We are playing on Normal difficulty with Ironman enabled.

Felicity the Fatebinder

Unarmed Light Armoured Mage Tank and Damage. We need to be 1) As untouchable as possible, 2) Hold aggro well, 3) Dish damage 4) Deal with every skill check. EZ

Unarmed will mean we use only Dodge for evading hits from the get go, rather than Dodge and Parry. Usually this would take a feat. The downside is we don't have a weapon meaning we don't get any cool modifiers. Light Armor will mean maximum Deflection (reduces damage, and easier attraction of Aggro (lighter Armor = more attention paid)

For attributes Felicity dropped Might to 8, pumped Quickness to 16 for Dodge and Finesse to 14 for Accuracy + Deflection. Wits, Vitality and Resolve at 10.

For origin we take Diplomat - the only starting background that gives only non-combat skills.

We take Unarmed twice as our starting "class", even though we are going to be a magus type character. This is because the Magic selections give you signs (magic spells) which we can easily obtain, while the non-magic selections give you talents, which are rare (1 per level up). This means we start with Thrust (default) + Flurry of Blows and Palm Strike, giving us some abilities to cycle through from the get-go.

For Skills we put everything into Subterfuge, Lore and Athletics raising each to around 38. I think Lore was slightly lower but that is fine it will rise quickly. The idea being that with this start we will be able to complete every skill check in the game issue free. High Lore means good magic (Lore is the primary Magic skill - it is crucial unless you want to play a magic-less character). Combat skills will rise quickly as we use them.

---

We clear the first map, completing every check and recruiting Verse (we raise her loyalty first followed by her fear, just for the hell of it). I decide to try her out as an archer this time since combat manuvering is such a pain in this game.

We buy the Sign stuff from the merchant, flog our trash and move on to the Disfavoured camp. Save the merchant outside from the Disfavored so we can buy the Mirror Image sign (miss able and OP essential). It takes 60 Lore to learn which we do not have so it goes in the inventory for now. Loot the camp, grab the Missing Iron quest and enter Graven Ashe's tent. Do everything we can to raise Disfavoured reputation and reduce Scarlet Chorus rep. Recruit Barik and through dialogues raise both Verse and Barik's Loyalty to 3. Grab the Earthshaker's Quest, buy more signs and leave for the Scarlet Chorus camp.

Be really nice to Eb.

Take the Tunon rep option outside the camp. Loot everything except the 47 Subterfuge chest, talk to everyone. Grab the Illusion Sign, craft and give everyone Spectral Blur (Boosted deflection 45s). Purchase more signs. Recruit Landry 9Tahe the Tunon rep options) and grab the Scarlet Chorus Recruitment quest. Make sure Landry and MC have Rimespike, Landry has False Pit and MC has Frozen Grasp. Give Barik a 2 handed weapon. Chat some more to people. Leave for Remote Settlement.

Kill the Vendrians with all our ice spells and so on. Ice not only Freezes, but boosts crushing damage so its good with punching. Report back and get as much as possible as reward.

Leave for Tripnettle Wilderness. Kill who we have to, let the Vendrians go. Leave for North Clearing. Pull the enemies in small groups then meet with Earthshakers. Return to Disfavoured camp. Return to Scarlet Chorus camp, buy MC Lore to 60 and learn Mirror Image. Open the 47 Subterfuge chest. Leave for Echohall.

Go west to get the Atrophy Sign, use Spectral Blur and Mirror Image to be untouchable, destroy everything all the way to the Vendrian Guard boss. Let her go. Reclaim the Forge-bound Iron. meet with Eb and the Vendrians, agree to join them (Felicity is, to put it mildly, a manipulative psychopath) Return to Disfavoured camp and turn in quest. Return to Grave Ashe's tent. Wind them up. Set off for Vendrien's Well.

Felicity's cunning plans come to a head. Kill the Disfavoured, clear the outside fully too and go inside. Kill everything, loot everything. Level up a bit, craft your best spells and fight Fifth Eye in the tough fight. Almost die due to failure of aggro control and Landry getting knocked out at the beginning meaning no Armor Boosts or Haste-Heal. Prevail. Seize the Spire. Kick Fifth Eye off the edge. Raise everyone's Loyalty a lot through dialogue.

Go see Tunon, stay on their good side. Talk to Bleden Mark, say all the right things, get his Gauntlets - Binding of Shadows. They're Heavy Armor but being an Artefact, higher Punch damage, 10% damage reduction and a great ability (Shadow's Embrace) makes them worth the loss of Deflection and Precision.

Leave for Lethian's Crossing. Meet the Bronze Brotherhood. Forget what to do here. Kill everyone by mistake. Enter the town.


Felicity Level 6
Enemies scale with your level, booo. At least until level 16 so buying Skill Ranks can be self defeating. We can buy them later to leap-frog the competition.

All Attributes go into Finesse for now for Accuracy and Deflection, raising to 19 (Next will be Quickness for good punching)
Talents:
Bandolier (Leadership tree) 50% extra heal form potions and more goodness - an amazing talent but I regret not getting Mark Enemy on this difficulty since I have not drunk a single health potion
Staggering Force (Defence tree) Thrust causes Interrupt
Stance: Challenger (Defence tree) Taunt aura, the only good way to hold agrro
Refuse Pain (Leadership tree) Dispel negative effects on party
Arbiter of Knowledge (Leadership Tree) +2 spell slots for everyone

Gear:
Cap of Precision
Rogue's Leathers
Commanders Will boots
Battle Worn Torc (+1 vitality), Quickfinger Bangles (+1 quickness)
Binding of Shadows

HP: 158, Deflection: 31%, Dodge: 66, Armor: 5, Recovery time: 2.4s
 
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alice_ashpool

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Tyranny No Reload - Attempt 1 - Update 2

I have never done the Tiersman "Third way" path before (or any others to completion but I did the Disfavoured one the furthest). So this is pseudo-blind. We cleared the Disfavoured out of the Crossing and progressed the Magebane quest.

Then we killed all the Bronze Brotherhood to clear the village for a second time, Went hunting for the bad guy, killed more bronze brotherhood in the two locations they send you too and entered the Oldwall. Banes are annoying but not particularly dangerous, they just take time to hack and blast through.

Verse is lagging by this point because non-magic characters levels slower because they don't use a mix of various (magic) skills. Archers are the slowest of all it turns out because they rarely even use dodge/parry due to never being targeted. Anyway, we clear and clear then fight the big guy - he crits lantry down which is about the 2nd time that has happened. We win. We then release the Big Bane (A Havoc) without knowing what that means or how tough it is going to be. Turns out that is the final boss of this questline. Fortunately everyone is tough and we grind away in a tough fight that probably took 15 minutes complete with lots of spell casting, punching and healing. Bane dead at last. Seized our 2nd Spire. Gave the Magebane helmet back and built the Forge for our 2nd Spire. - probably not the greatest but I want cool gear, Spells can wait.

All buffed up and no one to kill.
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alice_ashpool

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Restartitis Strikes! Roll a new character immediately!

I was dissatisfied with the Unarmoured "spellblade" for a few reasons. I generally felt weak and I felt she was struggling by the Bladegrave section with talents spread through multiple trees. I was also particularly disapointed with Verse's ranged tree. Lantry throwing his quill is the better "archer" lol. The perfect chance to restart.

This time I am going with a single 1-handed weapon wielder, Magus style. Hard difficulty this time. What's a little challenge?

Eris the Fatebinder
Origin: Diplomat
Expertise: 2x Dual Wield for Slice (bleed effect) and Flurry of Blows, both from the Agility Tree.
Attributes: 12 Might, 16 Finesse, rest 10
Skills:
Athletics to 37, Lore to 35, Subterfuge to 36; Everything else base.

We immediately equip a single hammer and start bonking people on the bonce. Remarkable how much easier than the Unarmed attempt even on Hard. Also more metaknowledge.

Made it to Tripnettle Wilderness.

Level 3
MC:
Arrow Shield then Duellist 1

Verse:
Nimble 1

Barik
Fierce Demeanour

Lantry:
Greater Renewal and Arcane Shield 1
 

alice_ashpool

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Tyranny No Reload - Attempt 2 - Update 2

Complete annihilation of Act 1!


Final Fight EZ
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The key elements are Verse's Furies Rage combo-ability which you need rank 3 fear for. This is absurdly powerful once per rest: AoE fire pulses and big fire damage on blades. Rips through stuff. Secondly Lantry's Wheel of Ages combo-ability, rank 3 loyalty. Really powerful pulsing AoE debuff: Slow and Dodge/Parry reduction. Couple them both together and things just melt in front of you. Single Handed weapon does a lot more damage than punching, and riposte is plenty powerful giving free attacks when you Mirror Image up meaing lots of enemies are missing.

Even on Hard you don't need to Hold Aggro too badly if all your party members can take a hit and they can do big damage. Just rip through stuff instead, Barik hits nice and hard if you spec him right and Verse does everything.

Level 6
MC:
Arrow Shield, Duellist 1, Duelist 2, Unemcumbered, Blade Dancing
 

alice_ashpool

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Some things about Tyranny:

At the beginning of act 2 you can pay a large amount of rings ("gold") to access a re-trainer. This is available on any difficulty. Re-spec as much as you want. Wild. It means you don't need to worry about levelling unsuitable skills - just respec them out of them periodically.

Couple this with the fact that there are no classes and everything is fluid this takes a lot of getting used to. Absolutely your "mage" "should" be dual wielding front and centre blasting with cones and levelling Parry, rather than behind someone. the "tank" character should focus on DPS, the "DPS" character should focus on tanking and cones of fire, the staff wielder "should" equip a big sword and charge in, the feeble looking scribe with the quill? that put him in front etc etc. Do what you want and mess around. it's wild.

The companions are great fun, but Tyranny is verging onto "visual novel" levels of prose. You really have to love reading. All those people who said the game is short skimmed and skipped the huge amounts of text to be read. It's a readers game. That being said it is still truncated afaict.

/////

Anyway, my newest character feels the mot powerful of yet. Fire, especially with the frostburn modification is powerful, and looks super dope. Couple that with normal being... normal means its no problem so far.
 

alice_ashpool

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Here is something that I have been experimenting with/learning myself: Stacking lots of debuff statuses. They are very powerful and very easy to proc. If you hit the enemy with an attack that has Statuses attached to it, unless they are immune, they get debuffed. For instance Fireball is vs Dodge and will give the attached Magefire affliction (on fire).

This wisp is Blinded, Marked, Spell Breached, Frightened, Dazed, Fatigued, and has its Move Speed decreased (Wave of Despair):

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Blinded: -30 Accuracy
Marked: +20 Accuracy for your team
Spell Breached: -5 Elemental and Magic Armour
Frightened: -30% Will Defence
Dazed: +50% Recovery time
Fatigued: -5 Quickness
Wave of Despair: -60% Move Speed

All that adds up to significant ease in fights.
 

alice_ashpool

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Quick note on Thrust

This is mostly written to put down a couple of thoughts for myself, but it might be interesting.

You start with an ability called Thrust. it doesn't sound very interesting. it does slightly more damage than a regular attack (1.5 x Primary Weapon vs Parry). Turns out this is one of the signature abilities of the Fatebinder and can become your defining opener - a devastating single-target strike. The reason for this is that there are 6 tier-1 abilities which add modifiers to Thrust. There is also one 2nd tier ability that means Thrust procs a party wide buff. The reason this is worth all those Talent points is similar to any other cRPG: Action Economy is King, and if you can take a single action that does many things you're going to kill more, faster.

Here's my Thrust:

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Mediocre damage but look at all those extras. This means I can start an encounter with Thrust, then follow up with all my spells, no need to use any other Abilities, just Thrust and Magic. And with 20s cooldown you can get a lot of stabs in. Currently: Feint, Arcane Charge, Focused Strike, Mark Enemy and To Arms.

Here are all the Talents that modify Thrust.
Feint (Agility tree): Blinds target
Escape (Ranged tree): Roots target; User: +50% Move Speed 2s, Immune to Engagement 2s
Arcane Charge (Magic tree): Spell Breach target; User: +15 All magic skills
Focused Strike (Power Tree): +15 Accuracy and +6 Armor Penetration for Thrust
Staggering Force (Defence tree): Interrupt target
Mark Enemy (Leadership Tree req level 3): Marks target
To Arms! (Leadership tree req Mark Enemy): 3m AoE +10 Dodge and Parry; +10 Will, Magic, Endurance Defence

Escape and Staggering force are the weakest imo but if you need to go down either tree I would recomend bolting stuff onto Thrust rather than picking up additional Abilities if you do not need them.
 

Antimatter

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Ohhhh, a nice one! Congratulations are in order. I really enjoy your showcases of getting these rarest achievements. But it's not only the result that matters, you always provide useful commentary and advice on the games you play. Bravo!
 

alice_ashpool

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Some thoughts:

Later game story
Act 3 is a very short, clearly rushed but still cohesive main story-wise: everything feels like it properly comes to a head. Most dissatisfying mostly because of the lack of unique dialogues for the act from the companions. All the dialogue is front-loaded in act 1. I also noticed an increasing number of missing dialogue strings as I went further in, and more and more dialogue that was really clearly un-integrated where whichever variables you had obtained triggered various bits of dialogue one after the other which did not link to each other, making it very obvious you were getting the "dialogue for you choice in situation A, followed by dialogue for your choice in situation B" and so on. Game as a whole is a rough mess by this point. But it is great, one of a kind.

No reloading:
Not as hard as my 3 required attempts would indicate. Hard is hard, while Normal is normal. I think the Hard run would have been possible with some changes (I made lots of mistakes that time). I hindsight I would rush the leadership tree more because there is an ability that restores HP on kill for the whole party. Very strong. I ended up having to kill Tunon because I didn't know how to trigger getting Tunon to be your pal and well, I couldn't reload.

Builds
Go magic tank. Can be any weapon/combo. Single weapon for riposte, dual wield for more abilities, or staff for Staff of Ages Tank, even 2-handed if you want to hit hard. Just stand at the front and blast. I bought my lore up to 150 which is a "meta" thing to do - but only at the end of the game, because i'm not that meta - that meant I was level 19 at the end while companions were 12-14. This does mean enemies are scaled way up though (Seems to be based on average level). High lore means lots of very powerful spells. Making you nearly untouchable and able to throw out very damaging spells. I raised Finesse to 19, Wits to 19 then everything else into Vitality. Gravelight scales with Finesse + Wits and Fire scales with Vitality + Wits so this works out really well for my chose spells. Also I took the fire sign during conquest - the two abilities are lacklustre whereas being able to blast with fire from the very beginning is great.

Companions:
I used Lantry and Eb for the whole game. The two best mages. Magic is boss. Also used Verse, she is hard to hit and has the flaming arrow ability which is useful in the early-mid game for setting more people on fire.

Quirks of the game:
Level scaling is such a chore, you get powerful but so does everything else, and so do things like trap damage and trap disarm DC seem to scale with your level as well. Since Dodge XP seems to be based on damage you take I was curious if it was actually more efficient to trigger every trap with your party taking lots of damage, them re-specing it into Subterfuge. Basically don't sweat the scaling, just grumble at it. I only respeced once because Neormal gets really easy. Also I really dislike the MMO global cooldowns and ability cooldowns approach they took in this game. Its really boring since every fight is "cycle through your spells and abilities" with very little thought, but you can't auto attack enemies down because auto attacks do nothing practically - it would take an age.

Here is Archon Cassandra:

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If anyone happens to play tyranny hmu if you need any advice on the mechanics.
 
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