Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader & now also Warhammer 40,000: Dark Heresy - a new cRPG from Owlcat Games

[m7600]

I think that Pathfinder: Kingmaker nailed it with the option to play real time with pause or turn based. Though the turn-based option was developed originally by a modder, gotta give credit where credit is due. It was cool that Owlcat made it official.

In terms of story, immersion, etc., I prefer Planescape: Torment and the Baldur's Gate series. But it terms of mechanics, Pathfinder: Kingmaker has set a new standard. Arguably, every new RPG should have both options, RtwP and TB. After all, from a technical point of view, it's not as if the game's code can't have both options.

 

[Urdnot_Wrex]

I think that Pathfinder: Kingmaker nailed it with the option to play real time with pause or turn based. Though the turn-based option was developed originally by a modder, gotta give credit where credit is due. It was cool that Owlcat made it official.

In terms of story, immersion, etc., I prefer Planescape: Torment and the Baldur's Gate series. But it terms of mechanics, Pathfinder: Kingmaker has set a new standard. Arguably, every new RPG should have both options, RtwP and TB. After all, from a technical point of view, it's not as if the game's code can't have both options.

I don't mean to derail the topic completely, but I don't think a game can be 100% well designed for both combat options, even if it's technically possible. Correct me if I'm wrong, if anyone knows how games are made (I don't), but I can't imagine you plan the setup of a fight the same way if you know it's only going to be TB (or RtwP, for that matter). It's nice to offer choice, but I think it can only be a compromise in this case, it will be balanced for either one or the other.

 

[m7600]

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I don't think that balance is important in RPGs. I like unbalanced encounters. For example, in Baldur's Gate 2, you can try to beat the Shadow Dragon in the Umar Hills as soon as you emerge from Irenicus' dungeon. You're not supposed to be able to beat him at that early stage of the game, but it can be done. So, the encounter ends up being like a puzzle, even if the mechanics are RtwP. You have to come up with a particularly good strategy, and it feels like you accomplished a difficult feat when that strategy works. In tabletop RPGs this situation is even more pronounced. In order to overcome impossible odds, the players need to do a lot of creative thinking, mostly outside the box. And I like that. There's something rewarding about outsmarting the DM, lol. And even when I'm the DM, I find it amusing and enlightening when the players outsmart me. The game then turns into a battle of wits, in a way. Anyways, I'm going off the rails, lol. Sorry about that.

TL;DR. I like unbalanced RPGs.

 

[alice_ashpool]

I am 100% against "balance", in the way it is used by most people. "X was too hard for me the first time" "I died", "hard is too difficult", "Only linear progression of difficulty is allowed" "Class X worse than class Y". Same old same old.

A lot of it is a clash of expectations between once-through players of single player games and multiple time players of single player games. Oh well. More unbalanced cRPGs please.

 

[m7600]

I am 100% against "balance"

Whoever designed the battle against Rovagug in Pathfinder: Kingmaker agrees with you

 

[Antimatter]

I think it's more than just a balance of different character builds against each other. It's a balance involving all game mechanics. E.g. in Pillars of Eternity 2, depending on TB or RtwP, there are problems with weapon speed etc. When the game is designed to have TB combat, EVERYTHING is different. You can read https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/owlcatgames/pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous/posts/2755596 to understand they had to make a lot of compromises - but initially, WoTR was designed as a RtwP game. It's different for Rogue Trader. Unfortunately for RtwP fans, it doesn't work the other way round - a TB game can't easily add a RtwP option. At the very least, it would require a lot of resources and efforts spent on a different combat design during the game's development. And no developer has infinite money.

 

[m7600]

In any case (and back to the main topic), I'm glad that Owlcat is taking a shot at Warhammer 40.000. The pre-Alpha footage looks interesting.

 

[Urdnot_Wrex]

I was busy over the weekend, should have clarified I didn't mean "balance" in the way of "not too difficult for any class/character/player skills" but referring to design of all game mechanics etc, in the way @Antimatter expressed much more precisely.

 

[mlnevese]

Balance makes an RPG boring. The different strength and roles of each class is what make them interesting.

 

[m7600]

One thing that I will say in favor of balance is that in BG2, Wizard Slayers and Beast Masters are very underpowered. Those clases truly, objectively suck. And it's a shame, because conceptually they sound cool. So that's one instance in which I think there should have been some balancing

About Owlcat and Warhammer 40.000, I wonder why they didn't make a Starfinder video game instead. Not that I'm complaining, it's just that a Starfinder game would seem to be the more logical choice, given that they already have experience with Pathfinder.

 

[Nimran]

They probably don’t want to be typecast as ‘the Pathfinder/Starfinder game developers’. Which makes perfect sense to me, honestly. They’ve already made two games in that setting, time to move on for a while.

 

[Antimatter]

 

[mlnevese]

I think Star Wars called them slugthrowers

Slugthrower

Slugthrowers were a type of handheld projectile range weapon that used kinetic energy to fire solid projectiles (known as slugs), as opposed to the energy bolts fired by a blaster.[2] Slugs could be fired by weapons such as a slugthrower pistol,[3] slugthrower rifle,[4] and scatter gun.[5]...

starwars.fandom.com

 

[alice_ashpool]

The gimmick with "bolters" is they fire huge rocket-propelled shells which explode on impact. They're big, brutal and very expensive. As opposed to say an "autogun" (an automatic solid projectile weapon similar to an assault rifle) or "stubgun" - any sort of crude solid projective weapon, or indeed a "lasgun" which, unsurprisingly is a laser gun.

 

[alice_ashpool]

Two companions have been revealed if you have not seen yet:

Abelard Werserian - Seneschal:

Idira Tlass - Unsanctioned Psyker:

 

[Antimatter]

Owlcat Games released a new video--which GameSpot exclusively revealed--that goes into even more detail about how players will seek glory and a whole lot of cash as the titular Rogue Trader.

"As a Rogue Trader, you will be "unbound" by most common laws others must abide by, according to Owlcat, and your "decisions and deeds send ripples throughout entire star systems and change the in-game world and those who inhabit." It's what you'd expect from an honest-to-goodness classic RPG, where player-choice and consequences are a huge part of the appeal.

Because Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader features a healthy dose of turn-based combat--which would not bode well for a trader travelling alone--you'll be joined by several possible companions. These include familiar 40,000 archetypes like Battle Sisters and psykers, as well as the legendary Space Marines. How you decide to build your squad is completely up to you, however, if you favour one style of play and want to lean into it rather than have a balanced team.

"The freedom to forge your own path in a universe ripe for adventure is the main reason why we chose the Rogue Trader as our protagonist," said lead narrative designer Olga Kellner in the video. Kellner added that the game should appeal to those who are knowledgeable about other Warhammer 40,000 material as well as complete newcomers."

Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader Video Shows Off New Gameplay Footage, Details

You have freedom to explore, profit, and conquer in the first CRPG from Warhammer 40,000.

www.gamespot.com

 

[mlnevese]

I'm really expecting it... Instant buy even with Owlcat's tradition of buggy releases,

 

[alice_ashpool]

I will buy this game.

 

[Urdnot_Wrex]

"Rogue Traders may be brave explorers of systems beyond the Imperium, but the privilege of pioneering uncharted space is not theirs alone. On their hunt for the mysteries of the universe, they are accompanied by the enormous fleets of the Explorators, which consist of countless battleships and research vessels steered by the Tech-Priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus. This religious organisation of scientists, engineers, soldiers, and artisans worships the Machine God, also known as the Omnissiah, and keeps the sacred mysteries of technology gifted by Him. Everything in the Imperium, from a common soldier's lasgun to the divine and deadly walking Titans, was crafted by the Adeptus Mechanicus. As they rule over thousands of forge worlds that supply Humanity with the tools to survive in an inhospitable universe, the scarlet-robed Tech-Priests' advance fleets explore the Imperium's outer limits: that is the mission of Explorators, who travel to the depths of the void to reclaim the gifts of the ancients, uncover long-buried secrets, and bring sacred Knowledge back from oblivion."

-

A religion that's dedicated to science, technology and general thirst for knowledge? An interesting change.

 

[mlnevese]

"Rogue Traders may be brave explorers of systems beyond the Imperium, but the privilege of pioneering uncharted space is not theirs alone. On their hunt for the mysteries of the universe, they are accompanied by the enormous fleets of the Explorators, which consist of countless battleships and research vessels steered by the Tech-Priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus. This religious organisation of scientists, engineers, soldiers, and artisans worships the Machine God, also known as the Omnissiah, and keeps the sacred mysteries of technology gifted by Him. Everything in the Imperium, from a common soldier's lasgun to the divine and deadly walking Titans, was crafted by the Adeptus Mechanicus. As they rule over thousands of forge worlds that supply Humanity with the tools to survive in an inhospitable universe, the scarlet-robed Tech-Priests' advance fleets explore the Imperium's outer limits: that is the mission of Explorators, who travel to the depths of the void to reclaim the gifts of the ancients, uncover long-buried secrets, and bring sacred Knowledge back from oblivion."

-

A religion that's dedicated to science, technology and general thirst for knowledge? An interesting change.

Ruled by an immortal dictator that is so powerful he single handedly defeated other dimensional demons... Not a good place to live.