Pathfinder: Kingmaker and Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous General Discussion, Playthroughs and Minimal/No Reload Thread

[Urdnot_Wrex]

How do you folks feel about not being able to save the game in the middle of combat? Personally, I like it, it makes it more challenging. But, from a practical point of view, I imagine that it would be better if it was optional.

Not sure if it's acceptable for me to reply as I haven't played the game yet, but generally in other games I'm okay with not being able to save during combat. Usually, if a battle goes downhill, I overthink my strategy from the beginning and change my approach. There might be minor issues that lead to death occasionally, but in most cases it means I wasn't as well prepared as I thought, so I'd rather not start in the middle of it.

That could be a bit frustrating in large scale fights that take a lot of time even if they go smoothly. In that case I might appreciate the possibility to make multiple saves and only trace back step by step where something went wrong instead of having to replay half a war, so to speak. (BG2/ToB final battle with Ascension comes to mind, although I haven't done that one in EE and don't know if it's still possible to save between the pools.)

 

[alice_ashpool]

How do you folks feel about not being able to save the game in the middle of combat? Personally, I like it, it makes it more challenging. But, from a practical point of view, I imagine that it would be better if it was optional.

I am very much of the "minimal reload" type, even when not consciously playing no-reload - I really dislike reloading combat especially so it does not bother me at all. Likewise BG1 and 2 didn't allow mid battle saving so that is what I have got used to. I would rather minimal reload on Normal than reload repeatedly on Hard.

The other thing is that imo in rtwp most battles are decided in the first round or two - either you are prepared and able to get through, or unprepared in which case you wipe. Not always, but I'm not sure if mid-battle save and load would be of much use, outside of for example making save-scumming rolls on Unfair difficulty a much more viable option.

mileage may of course vary, people play games in all sorts of different ways.

 

[Antimatter]

Well, I wouldn't agree with the statement that most battles are decided in the first round or two. After all, the original BG games are RtwP, and I know hundreds of examples where combat can take dozens and dozens of rounds, and you never know who will eventually win. Just from my last playthrough, I can name fights vs Kangaxx, Firkraag, the Tactics Irenicus battle, and of course the Ust-Natha siege under SCS. Then there are many ToB boss fights, all of them are long. There were literally dozens of chances for those battles to go either way (saves vs death both for me and for enemies, timings on spells, etc etc). I think some of these battles lasted several hours for me. And sometimes, you just don't have that amount of time to spend nonstop in the game.

Sometimes, I felt I would have preferred to have one of the stages saved just in case. But I guess playing BG for a long time have taught me not to save in the middle of the combat. So I haven't felt a huge need to do that in P:K either. I can remember the battle vs wererats in the beginning, where it always was like this: either I manage to kill the alchemist after dealing with melee wererats, or the alchemist kills my party. It's hard to evaluate whose damage will outweigh in the end. Another example of a long fight is, of course, the final P:K fight. I know a lot of players have had problems with it, sometimes leading to lowering the difficulty level.

What @Urdnot_Wrex says about the Ascension fight is fair for any similar battle in other games with RtwP. I remember the combat against the Adra Dragon in PoE, or the final fight in P:K. There are moments when you would want to secure at least the stage of the fight. But, again, coming from Baldur's Gate, I'm used to restarting the whole battle if needed. Heck, sometimes I restart the whole run when the battle ends in a bad way for the party.

 

[m7600]

Thanks for the answers!

An update on my run: I'm at the point where I have to make a decision regarding party composition. I have too many melee characters and not enough spellcasters. Ideally, I would leave Valerie or Jaethal, and take either Octavia or Regongar. But, roleplay-wise, I don't really want to break up the latter two. They seem to do everything together, including adventuring, and I don't want to be a homewrecker.
As for the melee characters, I don't think I would regret dropping Jaethal. With Valerie the situation is different. Even though she doesn't really add much to the group in terms of mechanics, from a roleplaying perspective I feel like she's the "voice of reason" in my group. And I definately need someone like that to balance out the attitudes of the chaotic characters, especially Harrim, who is basically insane. And it's not as if I could count on either Amiri or Linzi to be the group's voice of reason, since they're both chaotic in their own way, though they're definitely not as far gone as Harrim. Dropping Amiri is out of the question, she deals a tremendous amount of damage in battle.

I think I'll try this composition:
Charname (fighter)
Linzi
Amiri
Harrim
Octavia
Regongar

It sucks to leave Valerie behind, but I don't see a better solution.

 

[m7600]

Update: I killed the Stag Lord, with a party of level-4 characters. I had 64 days remaining before failing the quest. I decided to leave Regongar in Oleg's Trading Post, Valerie is more important to the team than he is. If him or Octavia have complaints about not adventuring together, they're free to express it.

In terms of strategy, what I did was a bit cheesy. I used a combination of turn-based combat and real time with pause. First, I approached his fortress from the left side. As soon as he appeared, I switched to real time with pause, and made the entire party run away to the bottom left side. I was being chased by one of his lieutenants and some of his goons. As soon I was out of the Stag Lord's range, I switched to turn-based combat. All of the thugs that chased me got killed. Then they released the Owlbear. But since I was quite far away, the beast began to kill the enemies for me. The Stag Lord himself stepped down from his platform and killed the Owlbear. The he began to retreat. But I'd be damned if I let him get back on that platform. So I switched to real time, surrounded him with my melee characters, and switched back to turn-based mode. Every time he tried to cast a spell, he got severely punished for it with a ton of attacks of opportunity from my party. Amiri landed the killing blow with a critical hit.

 

[mlnevese]

On the topic of saving since I have two small kids (4 and 6), I really like the ability to save at any moment. I once had to stop one of the long fights on round 23 to take care of them and had to fight the thing all over again. Can it be abused? Yes. Is it useful? Yes.

 

[alice_ashpool]

Well, I wouldn't agree with the statement that most battles are decided in the first round or two. After all, the original BG games are RtwP, and I know hundreds of examples where combat can take dozens and dozens of rounds, and you never know who will eventually win. Just from my last playthrough, I can name fights vs Kangaxx, Firkraag, the Tactics Irenicus battle, and of course the Ust-Natha siege under SCS. Then there are many ToB boss fights, all of them are long. There were literally dozens of chances for those battles to go either way (saves vs death both for me and for enemies, timings on spells, etc etc). I think some of these battles lasted several hours for me. And sometimes, you just don't have that amount of time to spend nonstop in the game.

Perhaps I explained myself poorly here - I'm really refering to the sort of "Buff and Crush" gameplay where either you buff correctly in which case you win, or you don't in which case you don't. And thinking more about Kingmaker and WotR than BG2 which imo is a whole different ballpark due to the differences beetween 2e and Pathfinder spell-lists.

 

[alice_ashpool]

Congrats on the Stag Lord win as well m7600, that fight is a serious early game road-block for a lot of people (myself included when I first started playing). It also looks like you managed to tick off a fair few quests/locations as well within the 30 days "speed window".

As far as your "team makeup" goes, it looks good since you are melee yourself. Jaethal really shines if you give her a reach weapon (Fauchard or Glaive) put her in the 2nd row and spec her for tripping people, unfortunately its tough to keep her scythe orientated and not miss the reach of a reach weapon.

If you don't have another full spellcaster Ocravia is great, and both Harrim and Tristian shine in their niches. One intresting thing is to have both Tristian and Harrim, something rather unusual but having 2 divine spellcasters means you split your buff duties meaning a lot more offensive clerical spells- Dropping double Flame Strikes usually softens up any mid-game enemies!

 

[Antimatter]

It sucks to leave Valerie behind, but I don't see a better solution.

When I completed P:K, I had only Octavia at my party. We didn't flirt or anything, so she stayed in love with Regongar. Octavia is an absolutely great wizard, especially if you pick Arcane Trickster for her.

When I played P:K for the second time, I wanted to see Octavia & Regongar both in the party to read through their fun interaction and participate in their love story (a very unique opportunity). I have to admit I could better understand Regongar as a person only when I had him in the party. But his class might be a bit difficult to use if you just started to play P:K.

Good job on the Stag Lord. Now take your time exploring areas and don't force the Barony stuff on yourself - through discovery and exploration of adjacent areas, you'll be able to find a lot of good stuff and not get trapped into huge story clutches and the need to act very quickly.

Jaethal was my most favourite NPC in the game, but it's not easy to accommodate her as you can't easily heal her. But she can be immune to MANY nasty effects and doesn't die (so you don't have to risk spending 6k on raising an NPC). Don't merry yourself to any party composition at this point as you still haven't found everyone, just try this or that (and reload a lot if you need). For example, I just couldn't stand Tristian's personality so he was not a character for my party (and tbh I prefer heavy-armored clerics such as Harrim).

 

[m7600]

Octavia and Regongar keep flirting with Charname, even though I'm not giving them much reason to do so, lol. Octavia says things like: "Do you think I'm beautiful? I think you're beautiful. I wake up early to look good, maybe I can show you" or something like that, and Regongar is like "Hey, you wanna jump in the sack with us? It could be just the three of us, Octavia, you and me". Clearly, their alignment is chaotic

Jokes aside, I think it was quite brave for Owlcat, a company from Russia, to incorporate stuff like this into the game. I mean, it's no big deal if you're a game company from the USA, for example. But, given the controversies in Russia regarding non-heterosexual and non-monogamist relationships, it was quite a bold move.

 

[m7600]

I just talked to the blacksmith that arrived at my Kingdom, a dwarven fellow by the name of Verdel. I simply asked him what he was reading, and if he could tell me something about himself. His reply was absolutely hilarious, I couldn't stop laughing for quite a while

Just in case his reply isn't clear, he's a blacksmith. And his father was a blacksmith. And his grandfather was a blacksmith. And his great-grandfather was a blacksmith. And he has a lot of cousins. And all of them are blacksmiths. Did I mention that Verdel is a blacksmith?

Now I understand better why Harrim went insane and why he left his dwarven home

 

[alice_ashpool]

Been playing the early maps of Varnhold's Lot DLC with the default companions and remembering quite how tricky some of these fights are - have to bring out the Stinking Cloud to deal with a whole host of them.

 

[mlnevese]

Crowd control is a life saver in both Pathfinder games... selective spell is almost mandatory in the second one... nothing like casting web that ignores your group

 

[alice_ashpool]

Now thats what I call AC overkill.

 

[Urdnot_Wrex]

The goblin portraits look funny... like E.T.'s evil little cousins.

 

[mlnevese]

I really like Nok-Nok... for many reasons

 

[alice_ashpool]

I decided not to use Ekun or Nok-Nok in my video playthorugh, outside of their respective key main-plot areas and personal quests, because they are just too good at what they do. No need to show up the others.

 

[alice_ashpool]

My update on Enchantment in Pathfinder: Kingmaker is that it is super cool and powerful. Now that I have Hold Monster (or more specifically Constricting Coils as "Hold Monster+") it is so powerful that many dangerous single target enemies can be rendered utterly harmless: For instance the Enlarged Owlbear-like Treant in the Womb of Lamashtu. Very understandable why Owlcat just put blanket "cannot be paralyzed" on many enemies.

 

[mlnevese]

I decided not to use Ekun or Nok-Nok in my video playthorugh, outside of their respective key main-plot areas and personal quests, because they are just too good at what they do. No need to show up the others.

When I first got them I didn't realize how good they were... then I saw them in a battle

 

[Serg_BlackStrider]

Inspired by @alice_ashpool's (Owlbear Charmer) videos I restarted (once again..., after being already at Dwarven Ruins dealing with Troll Troubles, without reloads so far and only one character - Valerie (surething it was Oktavia, can’t bring myself to stop confusing their names) - being killed by Tartuccio's Fireballs) my Neutral Good Halfling Sylvan Sorcerer (10/14/10/12/12/20) with Leopard pet on Challenging/Last Azlanti Mode/Completionist (as much as it only possible in this game). It's going quite smooth so far and we are already at level 4. We took a slightly different route: Oleg's Trading Post>Nettle's Crossing>Ancient Tomb (to pick Harrim)>Pine Patch>Thorn Ford>Abandoned Hut (in order to trigger Technic League Rundom Encounter)>Technic League Rundom Encounter>Technic League Encampment (to pick Octavia)>Boggard Hunting Grounds>Oleg's>Old Sycamore outskirts (to hit level 3)>Temple of the Elk (to pick Tristian)>Oleg's (to buy Full Plate +1 for Valerie, Protection from Fire, Communal, Resist Poison, Communal scrolls)> clear the rest of Old Sycamore. We still have 73 days and 17 hours before deadline, so plenty of time to deal with Stag Lord withing 30 days time limit and clear as much areas as possible (in my latest run we only skipped Ratnook Hill, Tranquil River Bend and Waterlogged Lowland in Act 1). No deaths so far (thanks largely to hints and overal information of those videos). I don't know how far I'll be able to progress with this run (still never finished Kingmaker and never been farther then Act 2). Will see... =)