Chronicler
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Ah, okay. I was missing that context.
Baldur's Gate III News
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Alice Bell from Rock Paper Shotgun "caught up with Larian's founder and director Swen Vincke (this time sans full suit of armour) and he said that, despite Update 9 being a big one, there's still a lot to come.
"No, because there's still a lot of stuff that's actually going to be added to that first act," he says, when I ask if Update 9 means players won't have to reinstall before 1.0 release. "It's really annoying, I know, for players, but we just can't maintain save game compatibility when we make structural changes like that." Vincke still, therefore, advises that if you want the full interrupted BG3 experience you should wait for release - though it strikes me that the community Baldur's Gate 3 has already cultivated will be happy enough to know that there's still a lot of content to come down the video game pipes...
But the thing Vincke is most excited about for the full 1.0 release is still a big secret. "I got a thing, and I can't talk about it. So I've been sitting on this thing for years already, so I'm going to be so happy when that thing is going to be out there," he says, grinning. "I just hope people are going to like it because I think it's really cool. Since day one - since day one - I saw people say something, and I said 'Oh my God. I wish I could tell them...'"
Since there's still enough to put in the game that some of it remains locked in the Larian vault, I ask how confident they are in the August 2023 release date for Baldur's Gate 3. "I've always been wrong about the release dates," says Vincke, "but we have a pretty strict plan right now. When we're talking, we have these charts, these dashboards that show us where we are, and all of them are converging much earlier, actually, than August..."
www.rockpapershotgun.com
The most obvious choice is:
"No, because there's still a lot of stuff that's actually going to be added to that first act," he says, when I ask if Update 9 means players won't have to reinstall before 1.0 release. "It's really annoying, I know, for players, but we just can't maintain save game compatibility when we make structural changes like that." Vincke still, therefore, advises that if you want the full interrupted BG3 experience you should wait for release - though it strikes me that the community Baldur's Gate 3 has already cultivated will be happy enough to know that there's still a lot of content to come down the video game pipes...
But the thing Vincke is most excited about for the full 1.0 release is still a big secret. "I got a thing, and I can't talk about it. So I've been sitting on this thing for years already, so I'm going to be so happy when that thing is going to be out there," he says, grinning. "I just hope people are going to like it because I think it's really cool. Since day one - since day one - I saw people say something, and I said 'Oh my God. I wish I could tell them...'"
Since there's still enough to put in the game that some of it remains locked in the Larian vault, I ask how confident they are in the August 2023 release date for Baldur's Gate 3. "I've always been wrong about the release dates," says Vincke, "but we have a pretty strict plan right now. When we're talking, we have these charts, these dashboards that show us where we are, and all of them are converging much earlier, actually, than August..."
There's "a lot of stuff" still coming to Baldur's Gate 3 - including a big secret
Larian Studios' founder Swen Vincke talks about some of the changes in Baldur's Gate 3's new patch, plus something he's exciting about but can't mention.
The most obvious choice is:
Absolute = Dead Three
Which will also be a connection to the original games.
Which will also be a connection to the original games.
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But of course, the most discussed new detail that will be added to BG3 is ... different:
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There are always mods...
Urdnot_Wrex
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I'm all for realism and most people have genitals so it's great characters no longer look like Barbie and Ken in nude scenes.
I'm also happy that some developers don't bow to all the cultural sensitivities that make natural human(oid) body parts and sex basically something inherently wrong, shameful or sinful.
Who takes offense can go try if binary fission is more fun.
But please let them remember that to have realistic game scenes with or without clothes, the protagonist needs to have a voice!
I'm also happy that some developers don't bow to all the cultural sensitivities that make natural human(oid) body parts and sex basically something inherently wrong, shameful or sinful.
Who takes offense can go try if binary fission is more fun.
But please let them remember that to have realistic game scenes with or without clothes, the protagonist needs to have a voice!
m7600
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What did unicellular asexual organisms ever do to you? They don't deserve such wrath!
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This! I still hope, Larian at least decides to voice the origin protagonist. I mean, the voice actors are already there, it's a matter of organizung more voice acting sessions, at the end of production cycle, when there will be no chance a single dialogue line will be changed. Voicing custom protagonist is infinitely more difficult task because of character gender, race and class variety. I imagine high elf female wizard would have to sound differently than let's say dwarven female barbarian. There would have to be a compromise here, that would lead some people unhappy. Still, better than no voice for protagonist at all!
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I can support the request of the voiced main character. Other games did it very successfully, and with all Larian's investment into cinematics, character models, and voices of NPCs, it gives an awkward feeling when you don't speak. Dragon Age games introduced me to VO actors whom I became a big follower of, with Alix Wilton Regan and Harry Hadden-Paton. Another option for the male inquisitor along with Harry was Jon Curry, the voice of Zevran. "Voicing custom protagonist is an infinitely more difficult task" yes it is, but it's the company's decision on how to spend the resources. And for me personally, having a muted protagonist is bad.
I would also voice a request to be able to swap party members for the dialogue you started, e.g. if you want a STR-based character such as Laezel to pass a STR check instead of your charming yet weak bard. Currently, if you get into a dialogue with the wrong character, e.g. due to exploration and getting the closest to an opponent with one of your party members without high CHA, it requires a reload so that you could position the party better and talk with the main character instead. Pathfinder games handle party checks ideally, where a party member could "count" for the CHA check in a dialogue, even if you're playing as a brute with low CHA.
I would also voice a request to be able to swap party members for the dialogue you started, e.g. if you want a STR-based character such as Laezel to pass a STR check instead of your charming yet weak bard. Currently, if you get into a dialogue with the wrong character, e.g. due to exploration and getting the closest to an opponent with one of your party members without high CHA, it requires a reload so that you could position the party better and talk with the main character instead. Pathfinder games handle party checks ideally, where a party member could "count" for the CHA check in a dialogue, even if you're playing as a brute with low CHA.
Urdnot_Wrex
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I'm surprised to hear they didn't change that, because I'd have expected feedback about that, as it was already quite a bother in Divinity: Original Sin 2, where you had to reload and approach with the character who has the required attribute, sometimes even combined with the talent to speak to animals.
I mean, if we're talking about realism, one person in the party who understands the horse language should be enough, and the fierce, intimidating Gith should be enough to, well, intimidate the opponent even if she's just standing next to the main character flexing her muscles instead of leading the conversation.
And yeah the result otherwise wouldn't be another approach to solving the issue but reloading and regrouping, which doesn't serve any purpose except to cost time.
alice_ashpool
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I noticed it as a particular weakness with the style of cutscene dialogue they have gone for. Usually I do not care about this, but with the amount of effort into (pseudo-)naturalistic presentation of conversations the mute protag is uncanny valley tier in some places iirc.
Zaxares
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I guess I'm in the minority here then. XD I would actually prefer my protagonist to be silent, similar to Neverwinter Nights 1/2 and Dragon Age: Origins, apart from choosing a basic voice set for standard commands and interactions. The reason is because a voiced protagonist, over time, inevitably develops a personality of their own owing to the way the VA voices them. Good examples include Mass Effect's Shepard, or Dragon Age 2's Hawke; I never really felt like those characters were MY character; instead, there basically is already a general idea of who Shepard/Hawke is going to be, and all I can do is influence how they respond. One of the things that I HATE the most in modern RPGs in how I'll select a dialogue choice thinking that it'll be said in a particular way, and then when the VA says it I go "Wait, that's not how I wanted to say it at all!" Some RPGs (like Mass Effect) avoided this by only giving you a highly abridged version of what you're going to say, but that just makes the problem worse; I then feel like I have no real say in what I want to say at all, I can only pick general guidelines of what I want the character to say.
So yes, ultimately I would still prefer silent protagonists so I at least have the freedom to imagine in my head how my character said his reply, with their own particular nuances and emphasis.
So yes, ultimately I would still prefer silent protagonists so I at least have the freedom to imagine in my head how my character said his reply, with their own particular nuances and emphasis.
Chronicler
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Personally, I think there's a difference between a "silent" protagonist and one that merely lacks voice acting.
Games like BG1 and 2, Skyrim, the protagonist talks. In no way is what they're saying left up to the imagination. You select clear dialogue options with clear opinions and stuff. It's just not voice acted.
That's a little different from something like a lot of the Zelda games, where other characters will often respond as if Link has spoken, but what, if anything, he said is never really made clear to the player, outside of maybe a few moments where the player is allowed to choose yes or no answers.
The former isn't really making an attempt to keep the character as some sort of blank slate. There are all sorts of dialogue options that display all sorts of personality. It's just prohibitively expensive to give this guy a dozen voices that each have three to six responses to any given conversation prompt.
We all remember the rant we can give to Portalbendarwinden
That being said, personally I'm not dead set on having fully voiced dialogue for the player character in BG3. BG1 and 2 didn't need it. Though maybe I'd think differently if I got in on the early access and saw how incongruous it was with the rest of the game.
Games like BG1 and 2, Skyrim, the protagonist talks. In no way is what they're saying left up to the imagination. You select clear dialogue options with clear opinions and stuff. It's just not voice acted.
That's a little different from something like a lot of the Zelda games, where other characters will often respond as if Link has spoken, but what, if anything, he said is never really made clear to the player, outside of maybe a few moments where the player is allowed to choose yes or no answers.
The former isn't really making an attempt to keep the character as some sort of blank slate. There are all sorts of dialogue options that display all sorts of personality. It's just prohibitively expensive to give this guy a dozen voices that each have three to six responses to any given conversation prompt.
We all remember the rant we can give to Portalbendarwinden
That being said, personally I'm not dead set on having fully voiced dialogue for the player character in BG3. BG1 and 2 didn't need it. Though maybe I'd think differently if I got in on the early access and saw how incongruous it was with the rest of the game.
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To me, it all sounds like 2 steps forward, and 1 step back. Dragon Age: Inquisition had an amazing VO for the main character. Dragon Age: Origins still didn't (due to technology). Fallout 4 had an ok VO for the main char. But Starfield will have a muted main character. Baldur's Gate 3 is very similar to Dragon Age games, even party interactions/romances are very similar + the party camp events.
Urdnot_Wrex
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Fascinating how different impressions can be. Mass Effect is exactly the example I personally would use for why a voiced protagonist can be great even without having 10 voices to pick from. I guess your opinion is similar to some people's aversion to playing Larian's origin characters instead of fully customized ones... the wish or need to leave your own mark on the protagonist.
The far too simplified dialogue prompts in ME or DA:O are a different problem of course, as they often gave no impression of how the actual answer is going to "sound". That's not going to be the case in BG3.
And yes, there are games with mute protagonists, but the huge difference is that they don't look so freaking realistic. NWN and DA:O are both quite old, the graphics show it, and you usually see the back of your character when they talk.
Then go look at BG3. Here's a link to an early dialogue scene where you can recruit Shadowheart (I deliberately picked that one because it's very non-spoilery. In romance dialogues the effect is even more obvious but I figured some people wouldn't want to see those yet). You can start watching at 1:00 to see what I mean.
Fully custom main character. Multiple dialogue options and you see the whole text.
And yet, seeing the level of realistic visual details, hearing Shadowheart speak (who has a great voice) and then looking into the face of your mute, fidgeting protagonist, clicking on a mute dialogue option and then seeing and hearing Shadowheart's full response again, the protagonist just looks and feels so incredibly awkward, very immersion-breaking to me, much worse than having a limited number of voices.
I guess it all depends on person taste, how much importance and weight the "full custom" thing has for someone, vs the odd feeling of watching a movie dialogue scene where one audio sequence is missing or broken.
And especially in romance dialogues that feels sooooo weird to me.
When we had those discussions in theory only, I remember saying that while I preferred a voiced protagonist, I wouldn't mind too much not having it, and couldn't understand Antimatter's adamant position on this. Until I decided to think "forget spoilers, it's so early in the game" and watched a few clips of camp interactions, especially the ones leading to romance interaction, and then I totally got it.
So we just have different ideas of what immersion means to us, but if they decide to voice the origin characters only, which are already there as NPCs otherwise, then it would be a reasonable compromise, because people who wish for full customization wouldn't pick one of them anyway. Although, if Divinity: Original Sin 2 is any indication, it might be possible to fully adjust the looks and maybe even class of an origin character protagonist.
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I was in @Zaxares camp for a long time, but that has changed completely, when I started to play games that were fully or almost fully voiced over. As Antimatter or Urdnot Wrex said, it would be too much immersion breaking for me, if everyone around me speaks, but not my character. There is always a risk, of course, that the voice actor for protagonist would be chosen poorly, but fortunately I haven't experienced such a case yet (even if I'm not fond of Bayek's voice from Assassin's Creed Origins that much, it's not because of poor voice acting, but just a personal preference).
Also, what's important to me is that lately I started to prefer games with fixed, rather than custom-made, protagonist. I too thought, that I may have a problem connecting with such a character, because I could not roleplay him/her as me, but playing such well-developed characters as Arthur Morgan, Jin Sakai, Commander Shepard, V, Kasandra or Bayek made me realized, that I don't need to roleplay myself to feel connected with protagonist. It's just a matter of good writing and voice acting.
Another example is Pathfinder: Wrath of Righteous. You can customize your character however you want, there are plenty of very important choices to be made in this game, yet I have a feeling that no matter which type of character I'd roll, I would feel connected with him/her exactly the same. Maybe it's because I have been spoiled too much with cinematic approach, that I can't go back to the times, when I could simply put my imagination to work. I mean, I still can do it, but it doesn't make me feel the way I felt, let's say 20 years ago, while playing BG or DA:O for the first time.
Also, what's important to me is that lately I started to prefer games with fixed, rather than custom-made, protagonist. I too thought, that I may have a problem connecting with such a character, because I could not roleplay him/her as me, but playing such well-developed characters as Arthur Morgan, Jin Sakai, Commander Shepard, V, Kasandra or Bayek made me realized, that I don't need to roleplay myself to feel connected with protagonist. It's just a matter of good writing and voice acting.
Another example is Pathfinder: Wrath of Righteous. You can customize your character however you want, there are plenty of very important choices to be made in this game, yet I have a feeling that no matter which type of character I'd roll, I would feel connected with him/her exactly the same. Maybe it's because I have been spoiled too much with cinematic approach, that I can't go back to the times, when I could simply put my imagination to work. I mean, I still can do it, but it doesn't make me feel the way I felt, let's say 20 years ago, while playing BG or DA:O for the first time.
Zaxares
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@Chronicler: Yeah, I suppose it's an important distinction to make that when I say "silent protagonist", I don't mean COMPLETELY silent protagonists who never, ever say a single word, like Link or Gordon Freeman. XD
I can understand where Urdnot and Cahir are coming from too, but I still prefer being able to create my own original character. Playing a pre-generated character still, to me, feels like stepping into the shoes of someone else. It's like playing Batman or Geralt of Rivia; while you certainly do have the freedom to play your character however you see fit, the game still makes some assumptions about how the character is expected to behave, and the end result is that I feel like I'm just guiding the choices of someone else, rather than an avatar who is an extension of myself. I feel it's important to note that I do not think games with pre-designed protagonists are BAD, mind you. They just scratch a different kind of RPG itch, and it kind of feels like most AAA RPGs we've been getting in recent years have all been the voiced type, so I've been dying for a good silent'ish protagonist RPG to come along again.
I can understand where Urdnot and Cahir are coming from too, but I still prefer being able to create my own original character. Playing a pre-generated character still, to me, feels like stepping into the shoes of someone else. It's like playing Batman or Geralt of Rivia; while you certainly do have the freedom to play your character however you see fit, the game still makes some assumptions about how the character is expected to behave, and the end result is that I feel like I'm just guiding the choices of someone else, rather than an avatar who is an extension of myself. I feel it's important to note that I do not think games with pre-designed protagonists are BAD, mind you. They just scratch a different kind of RPG itch, and it kind of feels like most AAA RPGs we've been getting in recent years have all been the voiced type, so I've been dying for a good silent'ish protagonist RPG to come along again.