Baldur's Gate III News

[Chronicler]

For what it's worth, I don't think they "need" to do that.

It's just easier and cheaper than the alternative. You could pay a team of people specialized in finding bugs and stuff or you could just send it out to your legions of fans who will find all the problems just by law of large numbers and will pay for the privilege to do so.

From an artistic perspective it's a little debasing to put out your art in such an unpolished state but from a business perspective it's simple math.

 

[Antimatter]

And speaking of wishful thinking, I still want them to include a romance for Jaheira.

Will the player be able to see Jaheira like this? Asking for a friend?

A topic related to this has come up recently in the industry. In a recent Capcom Showcase, we got a look at the newest Resident Evil CG film, Resident Evil: Death Island, which showed a female character, Jill Valentine, who hadn't aged properly. "The real reason Capcom decided to be a coward and not age Jill alongside her male costars is that in pop culture there’s nothing scarier than women aging like normal human beings".

New Resident Evil Movie Explains Why Jill Valentine Hasn't Aged - Kotaku

Capcom basically canonized the phrase ‘here’s why our female character is still hot’

kotaku.com

A lot of different people have shared their opinion on the subject.





I definitely agree, I would appreciate it if games and other media could show more aging women as badass. Moreover, we should be getting romance options among such women. It should become a norm.

 

[Chronicler]

In anime it seems like there's a lot of "The teenage heroine's dad looks like another species. The teenage heroine's mom looks like a near identical seventeen year old doppelganger." Sometimes they make a gag of it and sometimes it just passes without comment.

I don't envy live action actresses. If you're a videogame or a cartoon character you can look like whatever and stay young forever, but when you're working with your real human body you don't just get to turn back the clock when the casting director's uncomfortable with the 40 year old step mom character looking her age.

 

[mlnevese]

It happens all the time with any long-lived franchise. James Bond has to be changed every few movies, for instance. But I'd like to see movies showing the heroes aging. Grandfather 007 could be interesting

 

[O_Bruce]

To be honest, I consider the whole thing as a non-issue that sociopaths from Twitter came up with. What is shown in media doesn't change the fundamental reality of aging, so in that light voices for "normalization" or whatever do sound extremely silly. If we put first-world problems to the side, then I agree: the more options, the better. Providing that the execution is well of course.

 

[O_Bruce]

We get finally more diversity in games with people of all different backgrounds, cultures, species, genders, orientations, whatever, and that's a good thing, so I really, really don't understand why having game characters that are not the mentor, knitting grandma or old witch to be older than 20-something is such a big deal.

It isn't a big deal, because you can find characters like that. I also don't like the implication that being a mentor isn't somehow sufficient. As if being a mentor wasn't implying a huge deal of experience, wisdom, and expertise, all of which require the older character to fit in that role.

Yes, the fundamental reality of aging exists, but any kind of media still presents us with the illusion of perfection and influences people's mind that it's something to be ashamed of, something to hide, or even something disgusting, especially in women.

You are free to interpret this as you wish, but I think you're wrong. Adolescents and adults are in the vast majority cognitively developed enough to critically think and assess what they see. In light of that, I do think you're greatly exaggerating. As for audiences younger than that, imagine you're creating a game, comic book or any other type of entertainment for kids or teenagers. You probably would want to present them with something they are actually interested in or something that they could easily relate to. Doing that would be a sensible thing to do. It would be a good business instead some brainwashing influence you're implying.

Some especially younger people who get most information from the internet don't even know anymore what real people look like, with or without their clothes on, that they're not plastic dolls, and that's sad.

That sounds like a failure in raising that generation by their parents. So maybe parents should actually parent theit kids instead demanding everyone else to do it for them. I am sounding old, aren't I?

 

[Antimatter]

I would disagree with @O_Bruce here. It IS a big deal, and it's been an industry problem. E.g.

Exploring gaming’s new generation of elderly protagonists — Wireframe Magazine

For decades, the medium has treated them as afterthoughts. Isn’t it time for senior characters to receive leading roles, too? We meet the developers who think it is

wireframe.raspberrypi.com

There are other similar researches online.

Being a mentor isn't sufficient in the context of using the mentor trope. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MentorArchetype

What I think @Urdnot_Wrex meant there, and I would mean it as well, is that so often senior characters are used only as tropes, nothing more. A bad (rather recent) example is from Horizon Zero Dawn ( https://horizon.fandom.com/wiki/Rost ). Whenever I see or hear an old mentor next to the main character, the first thought I have is: let's see how this person dies/leaves to make sure the main character learns the difficulties of the harsh world afterwards. It would be really good to see elderly characters used not only as mentors but more like real friends for a change, if romance is not an option. Rogue from Cyberpunk 2077 comes to my mind as a good start.

The second argument, about catering to the audience. Creative people should take a lead, take an initiative and do something brave. They should not only think about the audiences and make all the decisions from a business side. https://tavernrpg.com/threads/charlie-kaufmans-speech-at-the-wga-awards.258/ The very word "business" that was used here already kinda proves the point @Urdnot_Wrex made. There should be risks and creativity, not only safe options for the majority to relate to.

And the third argument, about parents. It's not that easy. People (kids) are not being influenced only by parents. It's a real problem in our world, a very big problem, that younger (and actually elder) people are being influenced by ads, marketing, etc to look and behave in a certain way. There is only so much a parent can do when all other people and media around the kid make them think about supposed look/body/face etc.

How social media can affect your body image | HCF

Knowing how social media can affect your body image is helpful, but you also need to know how to take care of yourself and your self-esteem. Here are some tips.

www.hcf.com.au

The complicated truth about social media and body image

Many of us suspect that the beautiful, often highly-edited images of people we see on social media make us feel worse about our own bodies. But what does the research say?

www.bbc.com

Does Social Media Have a Negative Impact on Body Image?

Social media can negatively affect appearance satisfaction, an effect often heightened when engaging with posts of known people. Here's why that matters.

www.psychologytoday.com

The sneaky ways social media can sabotage your body image — and 3 easy tips to help you break the cycle

Social media can make you feel worse about yourself and your body — but there are ways to use it more positively.

www.insider.com

It's a real problem, a HUGE problem. So when a company as influential as Capcom decides that Jill Valentine shouldn't have aged properly, it adds a big deal to the problem. This needs to stop.

So that's why I don't think it all comes down to sociopaths from Twitter. It's a complex situation with different ins and outs, and it's exactly up to consumers, gamers in this case, to discuss and make sure their views are known, because the money machine, the "business", will continue doing their stuff, don't doubt that. The more there is a talk and a shared wish to see aged or ageing characters, the more the chances are to actually get them in games.

 

[O_Bruce]

I think both of you have a heart in the right place. I think I can give you that.

Regarding mentors as characters, correct me if I'm wrong, @Antimatter but it seems to me what you describe is your subjective perception of such characters. You may see them that way, but that doesn't mean they are not intended to be fully realized characters in their own right. It also doesn't mean that everyone sees it your way or my way. Overall, I fail to be convinced that being a mentor figure is not a dignified position to be had.

Now, for the sake of the second argument let's assume the creative space works like it ideally should. Everything is represented everywhere in roughly equal fashion, every product of our culture is designed to cater to everyone. What those works of culture would it be like? They'd be bland, tasteless, vanilla. Such works wouldn't offend anyone, but would not appeal to anyone either. But what if we used diversity and inclusion in a smart way instead? We could have different works of culture appealing to different people with different tastes and sensibilities. It would make more sense for a fast-paced action game for the protagonist to be young and maybe have an older mentor. On the other hand, in other type of game, older and more experienced protagonist could be a better choice. You could also play around with it. For an RPG like Baldur's Gate 3, I don't see age of characters mattering one way or the other. As I said before:

I agree: the more options, the better. Providing that the execution is well of course.

I am basing the above paragraph around the differences of comic books vs manga actually. Western comic books (I mean mainly Marvel and DC) are diverse and inclusive in very superficial ways, resulting in subpar products quite often. On the other hand, mangas have a variety of different genres and topics for different audiences. So if you are interested in specific topic/demographic etc. there is probably many titles to choose from for that.

One more thing regarding creativity: limitations doesn't shut down creativity. Working around limitations in fact stimulates it.

As for the final argument, I am well aware that kids aren't only influenced by parents. But it is parents' responsibility to be aware of what influences their kids. All of the studies you linked were about social media, and here's why I said parents shouldn't expect for everyone else to raise their kids for them - because I know how harmful social media can be, especially since young age. Influencing social media the way it was proposed in this topic sounds to me like suppressing the symptoms of a disease rather than curing said disease.

As for RE in particular, I don't know what Capcom is thinking, especially since I can think of an example from their game that indicates they're not afraid to show a competent older woman.

As for Jaheira - I am glad she is in BG3, I am going to be glad about it still. About romance, I don't care either way if she'll have one. If she does, cool. If she doesn't, I kinda understand on more level than "she's old".

 

[O_Bruce]

We are getting into off-topic of an off-topic here. This will be my last response here and I'll try to do as much tl;dr version as possible.
- Never I mentioned spying or being a controlling parent. On that note, I think that parenting style is really damaging.
- Kids access to social media isn't all or nothing. There's lot of areas in between
- I do agree that trust is especially important
- Encouraging your kid to try different experiences is much healthier than leaving them with a tablet and access to the internet. I don't think that's objectionable.
- Above being said, access to the internet itself isn't a bad thing, as long as it is just one of the different experiences. I don't think that's objectionable.
- Being interested in and talking with your kid about their experiences isn't a bad thing. For one, you can understand more about the kid, you can bond with them better. You can react better when the kid is in trouble. You even have better chances of noticing, for example, self-image problems as result of social media exposure mixed with puberty

Spoiler

I lived through that, I know

. And so on and so on.

There are many more things left to be said, but it is supposed to be tl;dr. So peace.

 

[Antimatter]

As often in our life, some bad news changes with some good news. Sounds like the new D&D movie will be a good one, and, I would think, it should help BG3 as well, as both products are targeting D&D players and those who are interested in D&D.

The D&D movie is a blast—and a surprisingly faithful adaptation of the tabletop game

Dungeons & Dragons: Honor Among Thieves may play fast and loose with the rules, but it really feels like a tabletop campaign on the big screen.

www.pcgamer.com

 

[Zaxares]

So pleeeeaaaase Larian, make Jaheira a romance option!

I'll support this ONLY if there's a way for us to specify in BG3 if our Bhaalspawn from BG2 romanced Jaheira and she actually remembers this (or conversely, she rejects the BG3 player because she's still in love with/in a relationship with Gorion's Ward). As far as I know, Larian's been conspicuously silent on whether there's any way we can have our decisions in the first two games recognized in the third, right?

 

[mlnevese]

A half-elf's life expectancy in 5th edition is around 180-200 years... She's not the young druid we met in the first games. Also, BG 3 to be authorized by Hasbro must follow the official Forgotten Realms canon; so that's what we'll get as background in BG3. It isn't and has never been in Larian's power to decide to follow the player's choice in the first two games.

 

[Nimran]

By the time this game comes out, I’ll have my dream job and a shiny new pc to play it on. Nice!

As far as I’m concerned, Starfield may as well not even be there. Bethesda’s latest games have been pretty bad, and I‘ve just lost interest in them at this point. At the very least, I’ll wait until the modding community has its turn at fixing Bethesda’s game for them before I buy it.

 

[Antimatter]

A new feature showcased. In the latest tweet, Larian showed a druid shapeshifting into an owlbear. One of the comments under the tweet: "What if we want RP dating the female owlbear from Act 1? Owlbear romance when?"

 

[Chronicler]

Owlbears are animals, as far as I'm aware, but druids romancing animals is a bit of a trope anyway.

Like King Arthur and that Squirrel in the Disney Sword in the Stone movie. It's just kind of assumed that being a nature guardian who is themselves an animal much of the time gives you a different perspective on this sort of thing.

 

[Chronicler]

It's my personal view that Boo is a disability assistance animal for Minsc.

After his head injury, he couldn't handle a lot of the brain work of his profession like he used to. He found a particularly moral and trustworthy companion in Boo, who he can rely on to handle a lot of that stuff.

Most people wouldn't want to rely on a "dumb animal" to do that sort of thing, but Minsc knows animals have an intelligence of their own, not understood by most, and knows Boo won't lead him astray. He trusts Boo with his life and with his blade.

I figure it's kind of like that, when a druid starts romancing critters.

 

[Antimatter]

Jaheira could shapeshift into a bear in BG2. So now a hundred years later, she can be an owldbear.

 

[Zaxares]

Yeah, when I saw Larian's tweet I was like "Owlbears CAN'T be Nature's mistake... Because they were never natural creations to begin with." They were the result of an unnamed wizard's magical cross-breeding experiments dating back to at least 2nd Ed (they might have shown up earlier, but I'm not sure.) Whoever the wizard was, they also created the Carrion Crawler and Bulette.

All that said, there is precedent for allowing Druids to Wild Shape into things other than Animals with the appropriate build. Druids in 3rd Ed could Wild Shape into Beasts (which include Owlbears), Plants, Elementals, Vermin and even Magical Beasts and Aberrations with the appropriate feats (some of them epic level), so I personally have no objection against allowing Druids an Owlbear shape with some appropriate balances put in.

 

[Antimatter]

WolfheartFPS started a series of videos about the BG3 lore.

 

[Cahir]

WolfheartFPS started a series of videos about the BG3 lore.

It's great, looking forward to seeing more. The first part is not something that would be a novelty for me, though (except the second Sundering part, since it's 5e). Basically, he summarized what was written in BG1/BG2 lorebook about the Dead Three. But it's fun to hear him as a narrator, so I'll definitely bookmark this series.