The Candlekeep Annex: RPed Baldur’s Gate No and Low Reload Adventures

Alesia_BH

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I have been playing BG since it was released, and I actually like and appreciate the EE NPCs. I am sure plenty of people new to BG dislike the EE NPCs for various reasons, just as I am sure there are plenty of people like me who enjoy the flavor they bring to the game. You should not generalize so much. It is really a bad practice. No offense...
Respectfully, you seem to have misinterpreted my statement. The compromise of nostalgia isn't applicable to all legacy players, but a subset of them. It's not applicable to new players, because you can't have nostalgia for something you never experienced. It goes without saying that not everyone new to the game will love the EE NPCs.
 

Xzarloxara

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Respectfully, you seem to have misinterpreted my statement. The compromise of nostalgia isn't applicable to all legacy players, but a subset of them. It's not applicable to new players, because you can't have nostalgia for something you never experienced. It goes without saying that not everyone new to the game will love the EE NPCs.
Ah, indeed; I seem to have misread that statement. My apologies.
 

OrlonKronsteen

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Honestly? The EE NPCs aren't really that much worse than quite a few of the non-EE ones. People seem to object to them coming up to you for a dialog, involving you in a scene, or being required in the party for a quest, but a lot of the non-EE ones do the same thing. Lets look at a few examples:

See what I mean? The EE NPCs don't do anything at least some of the original ones do.
Hey Xzarloxara (and @Antimatter ), thanks for the response. You're right, original NPCs do impose themselves. However they don't do so to the extent that Neera and Rasaad do. Not by a long shot. You can completely ignore many of the NPCs in BG1 (Coran on the bridge? Walk right around him) and the other intros are brief and constructive. For example, the Viconia intro in BG1 is short, interactive, and not too hard to skip once you know where she is. The longer scene in BG2 is easy to skip, too. The other original NPC introductions in BG2 are briefer, and, AFAICR, interactive and constructive. Not so Neera (and to a lesser extent, Rasaad). Those EE cutscenes really do go on. And in the Neera cutscene (BG2), you are subjected to some of the worst voice acting you will ever hear.

That said, reaction to these things is, of course, subjective. And just so you know where I'm coming from, I'm not a purist. For example, I don't even like a lot of the original NPCs. I think Minsc, Anomen and Aerie are utterly dreadful characters. And I'm not only open to new NPCs, I'd support them with $. I'd actually hoped that Beamdog would continue to release NPCs on a regular basis (with the hope, of course, that they were characters I liked). So in my case it's not nostalgia that has soured my view of some of the EE NPCs, it's execution - and in particular, the cutscenes. For the record, I don't think Rasaad is a bad character - I just don't like him. I think BG1 Dorn is awesome sauce. On the other hand, I think Neera is awful. But again, that's just my opinion.

And when it comes to opinions on this - I respect those of everyone here. If you dislike the EE NPCs because of nostalgia, or you just think they're poorly done, that's fine. If you love the EE NPCs, that's fine, too. I'm happy you get to enjoy them! And re: my joke to Alesia_BH - that was in the spirit of fun. It was really about sharing a particular sentiment about a subjective experience - it was not meant to be dismissive or judgemental about anyone who likes EE content. I would never intentionally behave in a way that is mean spirited towards anyone. I mention this last because sometimes it's hard to interpret tone in the written word - more so on the internet when words are written hastily.
 

Alesia_BH

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I think Minsc, Anomen and Aerie are utterly dreadful characters.
It took me a long, long time to embrace Minsc. I mostly came around because he is beloved by the community, and I respect that.

Aerie has always been my favorite NPC. Based on what I've heard I'm pretty sure I'd find her romance cringe, though. Also, the telegraphed virgin, mommy, whore dynamic of Aerie, Jaheira and Viconia has always earned an eye roll from me.

As for Anomen, I always thought he was supposed to be awful. Anomen = annoying man, right? It's infuriating that he's the only male romance option. When I play party games I usually head cannon a Valygar romance, or, in the case of my bounty hunter, a Saemon Havarian romance.
 
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OrlonKronsteen

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Minsc I just always found to be too goofy and repetitive. With Aerie, just too much saccharine sweetness and whining. I will say, she's darn useful. I'm sucking it up and running her right now, lol, because I just wanted a C/M and didn't want to roll my own. Anomen is an annoying man, all right, lol. I do like that you can make him fail his test. Worth it, sometimes! And IMHO everyone should run he and Jan together at least once!
 

Alesia_BH

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Alena, Halfling Priest of Lathander, Canon Party Run: Minor Quest in Athkatla and Windspear Hills, Part 1

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Shortly after our triumph over the Unseeing Eye, Nalia started getting antsy about her father's funeral. That's fair. I had completely forgotten about it. We had our chit-chat with Isaea, and Nalia was whisked away. It's been awhile since I've done this, so I thought nothing of it when there was no guidance, no leads. I figured something would happen or someone would show up soon enough. Maybe there was timer.

I figured it made sense to stay in Athkatla, so we started the cleric stronghold quest line. That led to a confrontation with one Mr. Borinall. I've always thought of Borinall's home as a place where an enterprising thief can steal a magical hammer. I always wondered what the area is for. Now I know.

Borinall and his thieves fell super quick. Aerie's True Sight was appreciated but I'm pretty sure the Blade Barrier would have chunked them anyways.
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We went back to the temple, rested and awaited some news -any news- on Nalia. Nothing doing. We tried swinging by the Council of Six Building. All was quiet. I was reluctant to spoil this quest, since it's like new to me, having not done it in so many years. Something seemed off though. It was time to DuckDuckGo it.

I learned that a guy named Khellor was supposed to show up as soon as Nalia disappeared. I also learned that he has a bad sense of direction, and gets lost sometimes. We went back to Trademeet, where Nalia was abducted, and nosed around a bit. He was there, on the other side of the fence. Turns out staying in Athkatla was precisely the wrong thing to do.
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I wasn't sure if Isaea's estate was trapped, so I figured we should have a thief. Jan was the closest so we went with him. It was good to see him again. It's been a minute.
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We grabbed the ledger and then made our way to my old friend, Officer Dirth.
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I say old friend because he saved my party once in one of my more memorable no reloader moments. I'll put the story in a spoiler tag. Read it or not, as you wish. Recommended for no reload challenge history buffs only.

This happened long, long ago, on the old, old BioWare forums. It was my first no reload attempt. My first run with my bounty hunter, Alesia, and the first time I appeared on a forum under my current name. It was also the run that inspired the Trilogy No Reload Challenge. When I arrived from BG1, I had mentioned that I had only reloaded once. The other players were stunned: No reloading BG 1 was thought to be impossible back then. I decided to prove otherwise by starting a BG1 no reload thread. The trilogy no reload challenge was born.

So: What does Officer Dirth have to do with any of this? It was a RPed run. My bounty hunter, who has trouble with relationships, had a fluid party: characters came and went, depending on the mission. At this particular point she had two companions, I don't recall which. I don't remember what we were doing, but I know we were in the Docks and it was night time.

Back then I wasn't aware of the vampire ambushes and the threat they posed. We stumbled into the three vamp encounter. It did not go well. Not at all. We were all level drained, all on the brink of death. My bounty hunter in particular was one more level drain away from death. It was scary.

Hoping to save Alesia, and therefore the run, I split the party in two. I had hoped Alesia's companions would lead the vampires away. That sort of worked: two took the bait, one didn't.

I sent Alesia's companions into the Sea's Bounty, hoping the vampires wouldn't follow. To my disappointment, the vampires they did. To my elation, Officer Dirth started firing at them with his bow, and he was hitting. Alesia's companions were saved. What a relief. But what about Alesia?

My bounty hunter had ducked into Rayic Gethras's house. Her vamp pursued, but she found just enough time to hit the shadows. The vampire was not deterred, however. He hovered near the door.

At that point I didn't know what vampires were capable of. I was afraid that Alesia would be detected if she got too close, or if she moved around, so I had her cower in the corner. I had no plan. No ideas. It all seemed hopeless. Then I looked at the clock. It was 2:00am. All we had to do was wait. I'm sure you can figure out the rest.

It was the first time the other players had seen a kill by "weather," as they put it. They thought it was super cool. It was at that moment that I felt a sense of belonging in the no reload community. Because of that, I always thought fondly of Officer Dirth. He was my hero, my savior. I didn't know he was a slaver back then.

With evidence in hand, we were prepared to make our case to the Council of Six. It's good to have you back, Nalia.
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With the party whole again, we were ready to take on a major quest. We chose the Windspear Hills. I made a few missteps in the opening battle, most notably squandering Alena's Blade Barrier. I felt kind of bad about it. Plath Rededge made me feel worse.
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Some of you may think of me as an expert on this game. I don't think of myself that way- not now, not by my standards. I haven't played much in recent years, and a lot has changed. Once upon a time I had a good command of things. These days I'm relearning, especially because of the new v35 scripts. My party play is super rusty, too. I may not look like a flailing incompetent but I feel like one. I'm learning as I go.

I had hoped to make up for the semi-botched opening battle by putting on a good show here. A good show would require buffs, I thought, so I had Aerie open with Invisibility 10' Radius. That was my first mistake. It wasn't my last.
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SCS v 35 has changed the school designation for Symbol spells from Conjuration to Enchantment. That may not seem like a big deal. It kind of is. It makes it harder to identify spells based on the incantation, therefore shrinking the counter window. As the casting time of Plath's spell move past 5, I started getting nervous. We shouldn't be buffing. We should be interrupting that spell, whatever it it. Belatedly, I had Jaheira take a swing. Nalia, who had a clear aura, should cast a single target spell, I thought. I noticed Plath was running Physical Mirror. I wasn't sure of the current state of the interaction between arrow spells and Physical Mirror. That's gone back and forth over the years. Plath still didn't seem terribly dangerous to me, so I felt comfortable testing here and now. Nalia went with Melf's Acid Arrow. It was reflected. Note Nalia's current hitpoint total. The Acid Arrow brought her down to 59. That's important.
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It's important because Plath's spell was Symbol: Death. Damn! Jaheira, Minsc and Alena are safe, but Aerie and Nalia are in danger and their auras are clouded. All we can do is wait and see.
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Aerie saves, Nalia falls.
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This is kind of a nasty encounter now- especially if you have low HP characters in your party. You can't pre-buff since there is a forced rest just before the encounter. Symbol Death is a -4. That's hard to make. On the positive side, Death Ward casts much faster than the Symbol spells, but what if that spell is Symbol: Stun? Assuming Nalia were at full health, we'd need Death Ward on Aerie and CC on everyone. 1 round isn't enough time. The play, I think, is to go CC on the PC and CC + DW if their HP is below 60. Everyone else should focus on disruption, and accept there may be a casualty. Even that isn't sufficient, due to the change in spell school on the Symbol spells. That spell could be Symbol: Death, Symbol: Stun or Hold Person. You need an FA or item based Hold immunity, too. I'm tempted to change the school designation on the Symbol spells back, but it's possible David changed them for this exact reason, to introduce a new tactical mixup. I'm sure I'm not the only one who preps counters based on incantations. For this run I'll stick with the current designations and see how it plays out. In future solo runs I may revert. The motivation for the change isn't compelling and it presents significant tactical difficulties.

EDIT: Scratch what I said about Aerie. She should have gone SI:E. SI:E is awesome now, while SI:C is far less important- especially when you factor in the changes to the insect spells.

The rest of the fight was largely uneventful. By now there's a clear pattern, however: the v35 scripts are working around item based immunities by using death effects. Alena, a halfling, with her single class clerical spells is relatively well positioned to navigate v35. I'm worried about my bounty hunter, though. SCS has become a more dangerous world for human thieves.
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Ruhk is next. He may have a trick up his sleeve too. Sounds like a mission for the Tank of Doom.

Best,

A.
 
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Alesia_BH

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Alena, Halfling Priest of Lathander, Canon Party Run: Windspear Hills, Part 2

In our most recent session I came face to face with my arch nemesis: the hobgoblin shaman in the northeast corner of Firkraag's entrance hall.

Once upon a time I attempted a blind solo no reload of Improved Anvil. That went surprisingly well. My character, a F/M/C, also named Alena, survived encounter after encounter against ludicrously souped up foes. Since the Improved Anvil world didn't have an experience cap, and it offered outrageously powerful items, balanced for outrageously powerful enemies, my F/M/C was by far the most powerful character I'd ever operated. She made it to +9 million XP without a reload. Impressive. Then she died. She died in Firkraag's Maze. And no: it wasn't Samia, or Conster, or Firkraag that killed her. It was that hobgoblin. Hold Person is a dangerous spell. It doesn't matter who casts it. If you don't take it seriously it can kill you. 9 Million XP can't help you if you can't move.

My mistake, in my F/M/Cs case, was that I lazily tried to disrupt instead of countering the threat. Something similar happened this morning. I had Nalia toss a fireball, expecting it would kill the shaman or at least disrupt his spell. It didn't work. Minsc, who had the Spear of the Unicorn in his inventory was safe. Jaheira, wielding Belm, was not. We could have tossed her Harmony but moving items between character during combat always felt icky to me. Poor Jaheira was Held.
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Fortunately for her she wasn't alone. Aerie loves casting Remove Paralysis. She won't let her friends be hurt.
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With the hobgoblins down, it was time to face Ruhk. Since I didn't know what to expect from Ruhk in v35, I decided to unveil our secret weapon: Aerie the Tank of Doom.

Aerie isn't ready to become the ToD yet- not really. She needs more spell slots and she needs more spells. Spell Shield, Spell Deflection, ProMW, Fireshield: Red, Blade Barrier are all part of the ToD formula and Aerie doesn't have any of those yet. But Ruhk is a rhakshasa. They wield normal weapons and favor Evocation spells, not Abjuration magicks. This will be a lesser version of the ToD, but it should be enough for Ruhk.

First, a scouting mission. There he is, with his kamikaze kobolds.
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Aerie's buffs were Pro Evil, Resist Fear, Chaotic Commands, Free Action, Death Ward, Pro Fire, Pro Electricity, Pro Magic Energy, Resist Fire/Cold, Protection from Normal Weapons, Fireshield: Blue, Mirror Image, Blur, Stoneskins, Improved Invisibility, Minor Spell Deflection, MGoI, Spell Immunity: A, Spell Immunity: D. That should cover anything Ruhk is likely to try, with the exception of Cloudkill and Death Fog. It should also cover most of the things that Ruhk could try but probably won't. Without Spell Shield, plus a Spell Shield Trigger, plus a Spell Shield in the book, this is all dicey and precarious, but Ruhk doesn't detect the invisible, so Aerie can always vanish if it all falls apart.

Aerie could handle this alone, I'm sure. Fortunately she didn't need to. Yosh, get some traps down. Jaheira, summon a fire elemental. Alena, a skellie and an aerial servant. Everyone else, hang back and wait. Your time will come. Be ready.

We opened by sending an invisible fire elemental in to draw out the kamikaze kobolds. Hurdle one has been cleared. It's time for the ToD to make the scene.
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When Aerie is in ToD mode I like to give her Ages or Everard's Morningstar, depending on the situation. In this case she was wielding Mauler's Arm. We don't have Everard's Morningstar yet, and I prefer to keep Ages in Alena's hands.

Now that the fire immune fire elemental has taken care of the kamikaze kobolds, it's time to send in the magic resistant, normal weapon immune Fleshie, along with the aerial servant. There's something wrong with the animation here, but Ruhk has deployed his Cloudkill. That's a threat to Aerie, but she has Zone of Sweet Air in her book.
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By now Aerie has drawn out most of Ruhk's spells, with the aid of the summons. They've made progress on Ruhk's Stoneskins, too. It's now time for phase two of the plan: lure Ruhk to the party, passing over Yoshi's traps along the way. That Spell Ineffective it from Yoshi's Special Snare. The Hold Effect has a level associated with it. Whatever. We don't need to Hold him. We need to keep him moving.
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And there we are. Have fun with that, Ruhk. Aerie, her ProNW and Stoneskins spent, is in retreat mode now, but she's done her job. Nice work, ToD. We look forward to seeing the full fledged version down the road.
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Minsc was vaguely jealous, seeing his witch play hero, but his turn was coming. Meet Minsc, Vampire Hunter Extraordinaire.
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Shield of Harmony + Amulet of Power + Oil of Speed + Azuredge. Down they go, one by one.
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The key is ours.
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We're ready to meet Samia.

Best,

A.
 
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Enuhal

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Always good to see Minsc get some use out of his ranger bonus against vampires.

Just a short check since I see you're using fireshields: Are you aware of the dueling fireshields bug in the current version of the game? I just wouldn't like to see unexpected deaths from this (I just recently had some interesting experiences with that one once again - for the third time, I think, so I really should have known better. I'm 100% comitted to never using a fire shield effect again, ever, until this gets fixed).
 

Alesia_BH

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Are you aware of the dueling fireshields bug in the current version of the game?
Thanks for the input, Enuhal!

Yes. I've always felt comfortable working around that. I've never succumbed to it. My concern has historically gone in the other direction, avoiding leveraging the bug. Saros used to wield it against IA enemies. I found it kind of hilarious in that case because of the Batman/Joker dynamic between him and Sikret, but I've never sought to use it myself, not systematically.

In my priest of Talos run, which you may or may not have seen, I used Aura of Flaming Death without incident, albeit sparingly. I did allow her to leverage it against Abazigal's salamanders, but I'd put that in the goofy fun category, since the encounter is trivial.

What's the current status of jmerry's fix for that? Have you tried it?

Always good to see Minsc get some use out of his ranger bonus against vampires.
Totally. They felt the backhand of justice, for sure.

Btw, have you been using David's random scrolls component? I had installed it, but then it occurred to me that it might reduce the frequency of Spell Shield drops. What's your experience with that, if any?
 
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Black Elk

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It took me a long, long time to embrace Minsc. I mostly came around because he is beloved by the community, and I respect that.

Aerie has always been my favorite NPC. Based on what I've heard I'm pretty sure I'd find her romance cringe, though. Also, the telegraphed virgin, mommy, whore dynamic of Aerie, Jaheira and Viconia has always earned an eye roll from me.

As for Anomen, I always thought he was supposed to be awful. Anomen = annoying man, right? It's infuriating that he's the only male romance option. When I play party games I usually head cannon a Valygar romance, or, in the case of my bounty hunter, a Saemon Havarian romance.

Same for deal for me on the Minsc front. In BG1 and then in BG2, also in BG3 now as well. Just always leaves me with the same impression like 'OK this again? Got it' hehe. But we work him in somehow, either to keep Dynaheir happy or Viconia or Jaheira or whoever, depending on the game. Least in the latest iteration Boo can actually be summoned, so more of a package deal there. To me that had a bit more staying power than the invisible hamster gimmick. In BG2 he's the odd man out for me generally cause Yoshimo is willing then we start meeting all the BG2 newcomers, but I respect the choice he made to side with Viconia against the goons in the temple district. The BG2 Minsc was somewhat redeemed by stuff like that, which then made me feel more positively disposed towards him in BG1 on subsequent re-runs there via tutu and such.

My standard BG1 party comp was usually built around Montaron and Viconia. Except for in the rare instances where Xzar wouldn't die first and then I'd break that pair in the other direction. Sometimes picking up Shar-Teel to dual and Eldoth till one of them kills the other, hopefully right before we can slot in Tiax to carry us over the line lol. I enjoyed how in BG1 you could kinda time the chunk outs there by the chapter headings, at least when playing as a villain. If ditching Imoen at the Friendly arm, I'd probably just strike immediately to get Viconia so she can be there when we discover the Ankheg plate in Nashkell. She's generally always in the party, like through Durlag's and the sequel. To the Throne of Bhaal and all the way if we can, but that was a bit of a rarity. In BG1 every other bit villain felt kinda expendable. Kagain would frequently get merc'd just cause his bark set was a bit grating. The decision to bring Edwin along was usually down whether I wanted play as a specialist Wizard myself, and then trying to step out that shadow. Anyone might go down at any time, though usually not Viconia. She had the best barks and her voice set was my favorite of all the Companion NPCs in BG1. When playing for way too many hours at a time, often it was down to Viconia to remind us when it was time to eat lol. Keeping us on our toes and focused on the task at hand like that. She was a mainstay.

For the EE NPCs, I feel like Baeloth is trying to steal her thunder. Showing up right next door, probably right around the same time in the campaign if the party is following the story beats as presented and pathing along the expected routes. Like not having Viconia or Drizzt be the first Drow that the party meets, cause somehow Baeloth showed up first? That's a bit too much for me. I like Dorn as a character concept, since I think he fills a niche for the party comp. I enjoyed having him around and felt like he added to the villainous adventure, but again I don't like the timing on his introduction. I feel like Dorn completely upstages Greywolf and Mulahey, and disrupts the pacing for the Mines if you triggered his scene first by chatting it up at the Friendly Arm Inn. Like to the point where if I hadn't already seen this flick a thousand times, I might think that ambush scene wasn't some B plot companion thing going down, but a main Plot quest. Like where maybe that's what all the dreams were foreshadowing? I might forget all about the Iron Crisis, cause whatever is going on with Dorn suddenly seems more important lol. Neera is still Neera. It's whatever there. I mean I do feel like there's absolutely no reason to be taking Garrick on board over a Wild Mage, but they strike me as similar.

Silke "Thespian Extraordinaire" on the other hand, now that would have been a choice to consider! I mean like if siding with Silke, somehow allowed her recruitment instead of Garrick's, so we could have a villainous bard who isn't Eldoth!? hehe But of course they didn't do that. Allowing us to recruit some old fan favs at points in the story where it might have made sense? Instead they gave us entirely new characters, perhaps familiar from the dev lore but not from the games themselves, that then had to have space carved out for them within the existing campaign. Kind of a miss there in my view.

It's like that concept of negative space in visual art, or silence in audio, where you sometimes need those empty spaces and little pauses so we can get the proper vignette on stuff. If it's cluttered up and overwrought with no space left, you're stuck with the visual pastiche overload or the AM commercial radio type presentation. You know where it's just a breathless run-on, or like a mural that gets covered over by stencil graph stickers till the original image is lost. I feel like stickers are a good metaphor, since after they've been baked on for a while and you have the residue to deal with even if you try to peel them away.

I think it would have been much simpler to organize any enhanced content around a single NPC that bring us to a new hub area where we can then meet all the new companions or unlock whatever side quest stuff from that entry point. Instead of being all interwoven, or stitched on top, I'd have preferred something just off to the side in that way. Basically invisible unless one opened that door or talked to that initial EE NPCs in order to activate whatever DVD bonus feature stuff. I'd have preferred that even to an opt-in via the launch menu, since I think it could have been done in a much less disruptive way. A single new NPC at Candlekeep could have handled it for us. We interact with him and unlock all the EE content from that branch convo, we skip past that NPC and it's the vanilla BG, something along those lines. For the sequel same deal, just like the Dungeon be gone concept, except cutting the opposite direction. A single NPC very early on who sets up that whole branch.

Anyhow, didn't mean to interrupt the flow there too hard with random rambles here. I think I'm basically on the same side of the fence as Alesia when it comes to the EE npcs and how they're introduced. It's just hard for me to vibe sometimes, as I miss the sense of historical provenance, and don't always trust my own memory. Same deal with classic games and flicks, musical recordings of tunes. Whatever that first one was that I fell for. I'll always gravitate back to that. Like velvet underground demo version, whatever is comfortable in that way, even with all the scratch and bark still on it. But then probably when one is very close to the process of making whatever thing, they just wouldn't see it in that way. Like to get the pan out view, with the distance on it. Once they put it out into the world and it gets all the acclaim can't really go back and change it or rework it again and again. I mean you can, but only as long as the first one is still around. For me that's the only gripe. I'd want it more like a branch menu at the load, or in-world via sone NPC who just drops a new breadcrumb or new a hook.

For example, in Candlekeep, the Wall-Tower to the left of the Barracks in 3/4 iso almost looks like it has a door. Say there was a Tutor standing right there, and his robe had a different trim color than all the other Tutors. Maybe they have a goofy name like Elhanzo the Enhanced

We talk to him and it triggers a series of EE unlocks that all go back to that initial interaction. Or I don't know maybe he could be laid up in the Infirmary? Just some way to do that where you see it and it's like that's your branch visual right there. Doesn't have to keep intruding back into the campaign, immediately recognizable as new but kinda unassuming in that way. One thing that disappointed me about BG3, but which actually goes back to BG1 and BG2 was the general lack of shorties. In BG3 I got like nothing to work with. I'm trying to create a character concept around Bhaalina Thum and her trusty sidekick Skim Scardashian to just be absolutely horrid villains, but the hooks aren't really there. Least in BG1 there were some options. I always liked though that idea of a crack in the wall where a Halfling or a Gnome could go that couldn't be reached by anyone but them, or maybe the Dwarves too, but not the other big foots like the Humans and Elves. Maybe that feeds into a Gullykin or Firewine oriented playthrough with some extra beats there along that route, and a way to introduce new areas or characters that riff off the initial branch choice. Or they could have done something similar with Class to compliment that approach, you know like Wizards bring expanded Imoen content or extra antics with Wild Mages and Sorcerers, but it would have been cool to see done more like that. Like legit a different door we have to walk through from Candlekeep to enter that sort of funhouse, but then otherwise you got the regular all we can eat buffet. Same deal for BG2, early branch from the dungeon to set it off. It's tricky to go back, although it seems like if it was mostly omission that might have been an easy way to handle stuff from whatever first area.

This thread is pretty great!
 
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Enuhal

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I haven't tried jmerry's fix yet. I had no idea that the bug was an old one and existed when Saros used to play - I thought it had been introduced in a recent EE version. I wonder why I never encountered it until relatively recently.
Regarding the idea of leveraging the bug: I kind of accidentally did that in my current run, when I used the efreeti bottle - the summon, being immune to fire, killed a couple of sun soul monks (with their special fireshield, greater sun, active) during an ambush event in SoA.

The random scrolls component is something I always use when i play with SCS (in general, I prefer to play SCS with every single option installed - only the "get your items stolen in Spellhold" is something I've sometimes not activated). I've had no issues with not getting access to spell shield early enough previously - I generally play SoD in my SCS runs, though, which provides 1 guaranteed spell shield scroll near the end; I think in my previous v35 SCS run I found one random spell shield in early SoA, at least that's what a pre-Spellhold save that I just found would suggest. Still, I guess without playing SoD and with some bad luck it's entirely possible to only gain spell shield once you get to the duergar merchant in the Underdark, since the "place additional hard-to-find scrolls in random merchant stocks" component sadly seems to be gone from v35 (I've also read complaints in the SCS forum that the random scrolls component reduces scroll drop chances in general, but that hasn't been my experience at all, and David has also denied that claim).
 
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Alesia_BH

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I haven't tried jmerry's fix yet. I had no idea that the bug was an old one and existed when Saros used to play
I don’t recall encountering it back in the day either. I noticed it in a Saros run, and made a point of maxing the relevant resistances when under fire shield from that point on, for fear that it might pop up. I never saw it, though. It may have been fleeting, TOBEX related, for example, or it may have been IA specific.
Regarding the idea of leveraging the bug: I kind of accidentally did that in my current run, when I used the efreeti bottle - the summon, being immune to fire, killed a couple of sun soul monks (with their special fireshield, greater sun, active) during an ambush event in SoA.
Yeah. Mr. Efreeti nixes mages from time to time in my games. I don't do it intentionally, but it is occasionally hilarious
 
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Alesia_BH

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I guess without playing SoD and with some bad luck it's entirely possible to only gain spell shield once you get to the duergar merchant in the Underdark
That's my concern. I need 2 at least, preferably 3, and I haven't gotten any yet.

In my last party game, which was an all arcane crew, I chose a sorcerer PC and created a sorcerer NPC to mitigate the risk that we wouldn't have enough Spell Shields to go around.
 

Alesia_BH

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Say what!?!
Yup! My bounty hunter, Alesia, pictured to the left, has a thing for Saemon.

She has trouble with relationships, especially with men, so she likes that he's usually off doing his own thing. She also enjoys matching wits with schemers, because she's a schemer herself. She'd never have kids, but if she did it would be with Saemon. She'd insist that he be an absentee father, ofc.

In Alesia's perfect world she and Saemon would fleece and backstab each other for all eternity. Meanwhile, she'd have a friends with benefits situation with either Imoen or Viconia.

(For those of you who suspect there's a little bit of me, Alesia_BH, in my bounty hunter, Alesia: Of course not- what a silly thing to think...)
 
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OrlonKronsteen

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For what it's worth, I find I get a way better selection of scrolls without the wider selection of scrolls component. I played with that component for years, but dropped it in my last install (v34.3) and it's a night and day difference. I've found at least two spell shield scrolls in this game so far. Of course there's still luck in that. And I haven't tried v35 yet.
 

Alesia_BH

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912
For what it's worth, I find I get a way better selection of scrolls without the wider selection of scrolls component. I played with that component for years, but dropped it in my last install (v34.3) and it's a night and day difference. I've found at least two spell shield scrolls in this game so far. Of course there's still luck in that. And I haven't tried v35 yet.
Noted! I've uninstalled it. The conspiratorial side of me thinks it's all a scam to keep Spell Shield out of our hands, lol.

(It wouldn't be the first time. During my IA solo Sikret asked me, through an intermediary, where I got my Spell Shield scroll from. I didn't play later editions of IA, but my guess is that he took action there.)
 
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