The Witcher series

[O_Bruce]

I already said I may do more research later on. For now, I'll stick to the option that requires the least assumptions, and that would be: characters from Witcher's universe have biology virtually identical to our own. It requires more assumption to say otherwise at the moment: namely, to say otherwise you'll need to assume that all or some of the things mentioned (like cells, hormones etc.) work differently.

Besides, I won't be fighting so hard about Ciri-being-actual-witcher-thing anymore. It leads to nowhere, and in the end, I might even forgive it if the rest of the writing is stellar and the game is great.

 

[Eternal]

I didn't want to be a bore and decided to use scientific reasoning, just because it's a simple explanation of why individual A can't pass the Trial of Grasses and individual B can. I read a lot of discontent with the fact that a woman became a Witcher. I don't have enough knowledge to understand why it's impossible.

And yes, apparently there are genes (both active and recessive) and selection in Neverland. The author of the books himself pays a fair amount of attention to this issue. https://witcher.fandom.com/wiki/Elder_Blood

Also, female/male gene transmission (i.e. differences in the set of sex chromosomes) is taken into account here. I don't think that in a fairy tale world everything has to be exactly the same as we have in the real world (Magic, curses and stuff). But Sapkowski seems sympathetic to this kind of world structure: in general terms, preserving real biology. So yes, atoms and cells most likely exist, though perhaps in a form we are not used to.

I'm just trying to figure out whether there is a realistically described biological prohibition against a woman becoming a witcher, or whether people are just frustrated for some other reason, e.g. because they are sad to part with Geralt.

 

[m7600]

@O_Bruce Right, but it's an interesting discussion, don't you think? From my understanding (which is not great), this is one of the things that professional authors in the Fantasy genre are discussing nowadays. It's a fascinating discussion, to me at least.

 

[m7600]

So yes, atoms and cells most likely exist, though perhaps in a form we are not used to.

Ok. What about quarks, then? And other fundamental particles (i.e., electrons, photons, Higgs boson, etc.). Do those exist in the Witcher's setting?

 

[m7600]

I'm just trying to figure out whether there is a realistically described biological prohibition against a woman becoming a witcher, or whether people are just frustrated for some other reason, e.g. because they are sad to part with Geralt.

Can't help you with that, sorry. My Witcher lore is really low, as you can see.

 

[Eternal]

Ok. What about quarks, then? And other fundamental particles (i.e., electrons, photons, Higgs boson, etc.). Do those exist in the Witcher's setting?

I'd like to know the answer to that question myself. I really like the cute little quarks.

 

[O_Bruce]

I'm just trying to figure out whether there is a realistically described biological prohibition against a woman becoming a witcher, or whether people are just frustrated for some other reason, e.g. because they are sad to part with Geralt.

The easy answer would be that there is not a single record of female Witchers, and given that the Witchers were much more common and needed in the past (when humanity was colonizing the Continent after the Conjuction of Spheres) it is very strange that not single woman-witcher was created. It would be also strange to assume that no one tried it before, when the need for the Witchers was much higher.

I also found an article that mentions boys and girls as a candidates, focusing on two individuals, and the girl is not surviving the trials. The article, however, lacks any source, is in Polish and I don't recognize these informations. Hence why I need to do more research. Link to the article:

Zakon Wiedźminów

Zakon Wiedźminów był organizacją założoną przez władców Królestw Północy i powiązanych z nimi magów w X wieku, w ramach projektu stworzenia niezwykle sprawnych wojowników posługujących się magią, którzy pomogliby nordlingom pozbyć się potworów, z którymi ludzkość ledwo sobie radziła w tamtych...

wiedzmin.fandom.com

For me personally, I fully predicted and accepted Ciri as being a protagonist of W4, years before the game was announced. Just her being the actual Witcher I have problem with, because I think it is ultimately a disservice to the character. Even if they use Elder Blood as an explanation to her surviving the Trials, the biggest problem is the need, or lack of thereof, to go through them. Ciri had a set of unique abillities to herself, therefore making a more interesting character than just "less experienced, female version of Geralt".

 

[m7600]

I'd like to know the answer to that question myself. I really like the cute little quarks.

See, if I was a Fantasy author (am I? I'd sure like to be one), this is where I would draw the line. No quarks, just atoms. Atoms would be the base level of reality in a Fantasy setting. There's real world precedents for that: Leucippus and Democritus, the ancient Greek atomists.

 

[m7600]

The easy answer would be that there is not a single record of female Witchers

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, dude .

it is very strange that not single woman-witcher was created.

Maybe they burned them alive at the stake for being, you know... Witches.

 

[O_Bruce]

@O_Bruce Right, but it's an interesting discussion, don't you think? From my understanding (which is not great), this is one of the things that professional authors in the Fantasy genre are discussing nowadays. It's a fascinating discussion, to me at least.

It is interesting discussion. Though if I was to make a fantasy comic/webcomic, I would rather avoid going too deeply into biology in-story itself. I, as an author, know what's up with the rules and therefore biology of characters. But mentioning certain things, like composition of cells or DNA would create a whiplash effect, I think. It might even bring the reader out from the story.

 

[m7600]

But mentioning certain things, like composition of cells or DNA would create a whiplash effect, I think

Sure, but you can call them something else while keeping the "mechanics", if you will. For example, instead of "cells", I would say "Small Prisons of the Body", or even "Lilliputian Homes", or something like that. Instead of DNA, I might say "Life-stuff", or perhaps "The Merry Ropes of Life", or something like that.

 

[m7600]

@JustKneller care to weigh in on this discussion? Might give you something to think about for your game design theories.

 

[O_Bruce]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, dude .

In theory, yes. In practice, you can use that to justify some very ridiculous beliefs. You can't prove there weren't any Flying Spaghetti Monsters as Witchers, therefore Flying Spaghetti Monsters can be Witchers .

Sure, but you can call them something else while keeping the "mechanics", if you will. For example, instead of "cells", I would say "Small Prisons of the Body", or even "Lilliputian Homes", or something like that. Instead of DNA, I might say "Life-stuff", or perhaps "The Merry Ropes of Life", or something like that.

I agree you can call them something else. Hell, you can even intentionally make the characters slightly misunderstand those terms, as to make them less accurate and their knowledge level more believable given the setting. I wouldn't dig too deep with it, as most of the time, it wouldn't be needed, and going too deep would effectively waste time one could use to flesh out aspects of the setting/story the viewer/reader would be exposed constantly to.

 

[JustKneller]

@JustKneller care to weigh in on this discussion? Might give you something to think about for your game design theories.

There's four pages of posts and I know nothing about The Witcher. Can I cheat and ask what the essential premise and question is here?

Sure, but you can call them something else while keeping the "mechanics", if you will. For example, instead of "cells", I would say "Small Prisons of the Body", or even "Lilliputian Homes", or something like that. Instead of DNA, I might say "Life-stuff", or perhaps "The Merry Ropes of Life", or something like that.

I don't have a clue what is going on here, but I feel like when I get caught up, my answer is somehow going to include midichlorians.

 

[m7600]

There's four pages of posts and I know nothing about The Witcher. Can I cheat and ask what the essential premise and question is here?


I don't have a clue what is going on here, but I feel like when I get caught up, my answer is somehow going to include midichlorians.

Right, but that concept can also work in a hard fantasy setting. After all, in Star Wars, the midichlorians are just a little bit of magic sprinkled in the lore. There's no actual explanation for it in Sci-Fi terms. Same as the Force. In Hard Magic, not everything has an explanation. Or, there is an explanation, but it's unknown.

 

[JustKneller]

Right, but that concept can also work in a hard fantasy setting. After all, in Star Wars, the midichlorians are just a little bit of magic sprinkled in the lore. There's no actual explanation for it in Sci-Fi terms. Same as the Force. In Hard Magic, not everything has an explanation. Or, there is an explanation, but it's unknown.

Once again, talking out of my ass here, but midichlorians didn't work and the franchise was mocked for it.

 

[m7600]

Once again, talking out of my ass here, but midichlorians didn't work and the franchise was mocked for it.

Of course they don't work. They're "magic mitochondria", if you will. It was an interesting concept, but it went over most people's heads.

 

[JustKneller]

Of course they don't work. They're "magic mitochondria", if you will. It was an interesting concept, but it went over most people's heads.

Did it go over people's heads or did Lucas lose his way with that move? The Force was originally an intangible energy that coursed through all (living?) things. Or, to be crass, since Lucas was ripping of Kurosawa, it was basically just Ki from Zen reskinned for white people with lasers. Once you turn it into a quantifiable material substance you reduce it from the sacred to the profane.

 

[m7600]

Did it go over people's heads or did Lucas lose his way with that move?

Probably both in this case. Those options are not mutually exclusive, as far as I know.

The Force was originally an intangible energy that coursed through all (living?) things.

Yeah, an idiotic, Vitalist concept of life, which was fashionable IRL in the 17th Century. It was scientifically disproved in the 19th Century during the heyday of Positivism.

Or, to be crass, since Lucas was ripping of Kurosawa, it was basically just Ki from Zen reskinned for white people with lasers.

Yeah that's what it is, in a nutshell. And it's a tough nut to crack. It went over a lot of people's heads.

Once you turn it into a quantifiable material substance you reduce it from the sacred to the profane.

Hmmm... I don't think so. The Pythagoreans of Ancient Greece were a group of mathematicians who were also a religious sect. In other words, they were deluded, but they did contribute major things to both mathematics and philosophy.

 

[JustKneller]

Yeah, an idiotic, Vitalist concept of life, which was fashionable IRL in the 17th Century. It was scientifically disproved in the 19th Century during the heyday of Positivism.

Was it disproved? How do you prove something doesn't exist?

Hmmm... I don't think so. The Pythagoreans of Ancient Greece were a group of mathematicians who were also a religious sect. In other words, they were deluded, but they did contribute major things to both mathematics and philosophy.

Totally agree. But the Pythagorean Theorem had way more sex appeal back in those days. Nowadays, it's just a creepy uncle showing up to your geometry class. Nobody really respects it anymore, just like nobody respects midochlorians.