Baldur's Gate III News

Zaxares

Habitué
Messages
79
If it's indeed like that, I'm sad. A voiced protagonist is very important for me to bring my character alive and make them feel present in the game world, ESPECIALLY when other characters in the game are fully voiced, and with the level of their cinematics in dialogues.
I sympathize with your disappointment, but as someone who prefers mostly silent protagonists whose voices I can fill in in my own head, this would actually be a win for me. No offense intended, naturally. XD
  • Baldur's Gate 3 will have over 600 player spells and sub-spells at launch, and that doesn't even include upcasting
The post said that 6th level spells are now in the game. Sadly, that means no "Finger of Death", one of my favourite Mage spells, but at least I'll get Disintegrate, which is fairly close. :)

I get the feeling that players who prefer good characters (without the shades of gray) won't have that many options to choose from. The new companion, Karlach, seems to be a good-aligned, but with an evil taint (this looks to be a habit for Larian NPC designers). Of course, we still don't know all of the origin (or companion) characters that will be available for the party, so maybe we'll get a last minute surprising reveal.
Yeah, to be honest I'm actually somewhat disappointed that so many of the available companions are origin characters. Larian obviously loves them and they've worked well for them in the past, but writing them obviously takes a considerable amount of time and manpower, and I would have preferred to have a broader panoply of characters to choose from when embarking on my adventures. As it is, it looks like if you want a Rogue companion you're pretty much forced to take Astarion as there are no other Rogues (or Rogue-like classes such as Bard) in the list, which kinda kills my hope that I can bring a solely Good (and some Neutrals)-aligned party. Fingers crossed that Larian has more surprises up their sleeve and there are actually more recruitable non-origin companions than the 4 they mentioned, but I kinda feel like if there were, they would have mentioned them?
 

Cahir

Innkeeper
Staff member
Messages
471
Yeah, to be honest I'm actually somewhat disappointed that so many of the available companions are origin characters. Larian obviously loves them and they've worked well for them in the past, but writing them obviously takes a considerable amount of time and manpower, and I would have preferred to have a broader panoply of characters to choose from when embarking on my adventures. As it is, it looks like if you want a Rogue companion you're pretty much forced to take Astarion as there are no other Rogues (or Rogue-like classes such as Bard) in the list, which kinda kills my hope that I can bring a solely Good (and some Neutrals)-aligned party. Fingers crossed that Larian has more surprises up their sleeve and there are actually more recruitable non-origin companions than the 4 they mentioned, but I kinda feel like if there were, they would have mentioned them?

I have a feeling that there will be a respec option that allows you to tailor your party to your needs (fully or to a degree). There's also a multiclassing option confirmed, which also will give some flexibility. Ultimately, I don't think it will be as bad as we fear.
 

Urdnot_Wrex

Habitué
Messages
609
I have a feeling that there will be a respec option that allows you to tailor your party to your needs (fully or to a degree). There's also a multiclassing option confirmed, which also will give some flexibility. Ultimately, I don't think it will be as bad as we fear.

True, I doubt they forgot the flexibility they offered in D:OS2. You can only have a party of 4 there too, and they're perfectly aware that people don't want to build their main or choose their companions based only on the role they need to fill in a balanced party. In D:OS2, even before you reach the place with the respec options, when you recruit a party member, you can choose if you want to leave them with their starting "class" or assign them a new one, so yes, I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect something similar to at least one of the two options in BG3 as well.

And of course they have recently confirmed that you won't be locked with your party after Act 1 after all (as they had originally planned), so that leaves some flexibility too.

I agree with @Zaxares here that being forced to play with Astarion because you need a rogue would be pretty lame, although of course all the hardcore nostalgia folks should remember that forcing one single character on you because you need a rogue in your party is kinda traditional in the Baldur's Gate series ;).

I'm gravitating towards playing some rogue or bard myself the first time so I don't really mind either way, but then, with the tons of classes and subclasses the game will offer and me not knowing the system yet, I expect to spend at least 3 days over the actual character choice :).
 

Antimatter

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
1,773
Looks like the last origin character is a white dragonborn sorcerer.



Also, they called back their DOS:2 narrator for this trailer, I like it!

new companion.jpg
 

Urdnot_Wrex

Habitué
Messages
609
If this is even remotely true pack it up, its over. Can I get my early access purchase refunded in full?

"Baldur's Gate 3 Has Everything: Polyamory, Bear F*******, Blood Sacrifice"



I watched the full stream. First of all, I think putting polyamory in the same sentence as "bear fucking" is just bad faith, and blood sacrifice happens in a lot of games and has nothing to do with any of that.
Second, now, the game doesn't let you have sex with animals. There's a character who can shapeshift into a bear, and during a romance scene he kinda loses control and turns into a bear before any contact is made, then he shifts back and apologizes and the player has the option to tell him that he likes/accepts it and asks him to shift back, and has to confirm about 3 times IIRC until it actually happens, and at several points has the chance to say various options of "No" or "Not now" and can still go all the way with that character in human form.

It's just freedom of choice. I personally don't feel any desire to go down that route, but if I'm not assaulted by a bear or bear form is the only option to have sex with that character (In which case I would still be free to decline), it doesn't hurt me that the option exists, because with the choices in the game I won't even ever see that path if I don't choose accordingly.
I'm not upset about the possibility that I can slaughter Jaheira either because I won't do it, so it doesn't affect me, period.

Was it necessary to add? There are a lot of Skyrim mods, many of them allow you to have sex with werewolves in their beast shape. Do I want that? No. Does that mean it should be forbidden for everyone? Not my place to decide that.
It's not sex with an animal, it's a thinking, feeling, consenting human shapeshifted into his other form and the scene had more of accepting the other person's true personality than some kink stuff. As I said, not my personal choice but also not what it might sound like.

As for multiple romance options, haven't we all either used mods or tried out what happens if you talk to this character and that character in the game until at some point a choice was forced on us and one romance locked in? And wouldn't many of us have wished otherwise because there's more than one interesting person in your party and you don't know if you want to do another playthrough soon?
If I could have, say, romanced both Alistair and Zevran in DA:O and both of them would have been okay with that, I would have done it.

And again, it's a choice the game offers, you can take it or leave it, and if you don't do it, the existing option will never harm you.

Swen Vincke said some interesting things in the stream, when asked about political message in the game, and also commenting on "dark and brutal" stuff they are showing. He said that the game can be dark and brutal, it offers that option, yes, but don't blame the game for it. You have a lot of other options to pick. The possibilities to pick the "evil" paths are all there, you can play an axe-crazy murder hobo. But that's not because it is a game for axe-crazy murder hobos. It's because you choose to go to that dark and brutal place.
Same thing he said about the message and all that. It's your personal choices that affect your path. You can give in to the temptation of the tadpole. You get the offer of power, and you can take it or leave it. Yes, there is a lot of temptation related to power. You can take that power, but power changes you, and you can go into the endgame insanely powerful but alone, because all your friends and allies are either dead or have left you as a consequence of your decisions.
Or you can refuse to use that power, take decisions that make some steps along the way more difficult, but gain a different kind of power through friendship, companions that support you and fight with you.
They may have fun goofing around with the evil options the game gives you, but those comments were actually very deep. It's an RPG after all. It gives you the possibilities.

And to those people who constantly complain about gray areas, "edgelord" characters and lack of "good" companions and "good" choices, I would like to say that too. What is goodness? Being thrown into an impossible situation, coming from a difficult background, working with what you have and struggling to get through it, trying to be not perfect but as good as the situation allows?
Or just being a one-dimensional comic style hero who can only decide to commit suicide because bearing the taint of the tadpole is dishonourable and he can't be the knight in shining armour now?

Seriously, all those "Larian characters" that some people in some places whine about, and the fact that the game supposedly rewards evil choices, that's just utter nonsense spread by people who haven't been paying attention or who think in black-and-white categories, not taking personal growth and change into account, or the fact that the existence of choices isn't good or bad, but that the purpose of an RPG is to allow you to play your role and make your choices matter, because they are yours to take, so the consequences are yours to live with.

I'm still not happy about the mute protagonist, the cutscenes look so awkward, and my hope that with an origin character the player would be voiced didn't turn true either. But other than that, after everything I have seen now about character customization, more sides of some of the companions, the impact of several different choices and some content spoilers of Act2 and combat details for example about Tactician mode, I'm really excited and can't wait to finally start playing.
 

Cahir

Innkeeper
Staff member
Messages
471
I watched the full stream. First of all, I think putting polyamory in the same sentence as "bear fucking" is just bad faith, and blood sacrifice happens in a lot of games and has nothing to do with any of that.
Second, now, the game doesn't let you have sex with animals. There's a character who can shapeshift into a bear, and during a romance scene he kinda loses control and turns into a bear before any contact is made, then he shifts back and apologizes and the player has the option to tell him that he likes/accepts it and asks him to shift back, and has to confirm about 3 times IIRC until it actually happens, and at several points has the chance to say various options of "No" or "Not now" and can still go all the way with that character in human form.

It's just freedom of choice. I personally don't feel any desire to go down that route, but if I'm not assaulted by a bear or bear form is the only option to have sex with that character (In which case I would still be free to decline), it doesn't hurt me that the option exists, because with the choices in the game I won't even ever see that path if I don't choose accordingly.
I'm not upset about the possibility that I can slaughter Jaheira either because I won't do it, so it doesn't affect me, period.

Was it necessary to add? There are a lot of Skyrim mods, many of them allow you to have sex with werewolves in their beast shape. Do I want that? No. Does that mean it should be forbidden for everyone? Not my place to decide that.
It's not sex with an animal, it's a thinking, feeling, consenting human shapeshifted into his other form and the scene had more of accepting the other person's true personality than some kink stuff. As I said, not my personal choice but also not what it might sound like.

As for multiple romance options, haven't we all either used mods or tried out what happens if you talk to this character and that character in the game until at some point a choice was forced on us and one romance locked in? And wouldn't many of us have wished otherwise because there's more than one interesting person in your party and you don't know if you want to do another playthrough soon?
If I could have, say, romanced both Alistair and Zevran in DA:O and both of them would have been okay with that, I would have done it.

And again, it's a choice the game offers, you can take it or leave it, and if you don't do it, the existing option will never harm you.

Swen Vincke said some interesting things in the stream, when asked about political message in the game, and also commenting on "dark and brutal" stuff they are showing. He said that the game can be dark and brutal, it offers that option, yes, but don't blame the game for it. You have a lot of other options to pick. The possibilities to pick the "evil" paths are all there, you can play an axe-crazy murder hobo. But that's not because it is a game for axe-crazy murder hobos. It's because you choose to go to that dark and brutal place.
Same thing he said about the message and all that. It's your personal choices that affect your path. You can give in to the temptation of the tadpole. You get the offer of power, and you can take it or leave it. Yes, there is a lot of temptation related to power. You can take that power, but power changes you, and you can go into the endgame insanely powerful but alone, because all your friends and allies are either dead or have left you as a consequence of your decisions.
Or you can refuse to use that power, take decisions that make some steps along the way more difficult, but gain a different kind of power through friendship, companions that support you and fight with you.
They may have fun goofing around with the evil options the game gives you, but those comments were actually very deep. It's an RPG after all. It gives you the possibilities.

And to those people who constantly complain about gray areas, "edgelord" characters and lack of "good" companions and "good" choices, I would like to say that too. What is goodness? Being thrown into an impossible situation, coming from a difficult background, working with what you have and struggling to get through it, trying to be not perfect but as good as the situation allows?
Or just being a one-dimensional comic style hero who can only decide to commit suicide because bearing the taint of the tadpole is dishonourable and he can't be the knight in shining armour now?

Seriously, all those "Larian characters" that some people in some places whine about, and the fact that the game supposedly rewards evil choices, that's just utter nonsense spread by people who haven't been paying attention or who think in black-and-white categories, not taking personal growth and change into account, or the fact that the existence of choices isn't good or bad, but that the purpose of an RPG is to allow you to play your role and make your choices matter, because they are yours to take, so the consequences are yours to live with.

I'm still not happy about the mute protagonist, the cutscenes look so awkward, and my hope that with an origin character the player would be voiced didn't turn true either. But other than that, after everything I have seen now about character customization, more sides of some of the companions, the impact of several different choices and some content spoilers of Act2 and combat details for example about Tactician mode, I'm really excited and can't wait to finally start playing.
Well said, couldn't be able to phrase it better. What I like in BG3 romance in particular, is that there can be different romance outcomes, depending on how your character will handle it. It's not zero-one design, where either you fail to meet romance requirements, by selecting wrong dialogue option, or succeed, resulting with always the same romance outcome. In BG3 your romance can go in different ways and be totally different experience in each playthrough, but it's still a romance.
 

Urdnot_Wrex

Habitué
Messages
609
It's all optional, you know. You can play 100% lawful good paladin and do or see none of this stuff.

Exactly, and that just made me think further.
I wonder why several people who are vocal on the Larian forums for example really want a comic style hero good and evil black and white game with lots of restrictions, where only clean "heroic" actions are rewarded or even possible.
Are they maybe afraid of themselves and their own darker sides? Or is it the thought that "if you do it in a game, it means it's in your mind and you might do it IRL some day"?

The Dark Urge, the new customizable origin character they introduced, is a very interesting concept there. Pretty dark and violent stuff down that route, but you can resist. You just have to choose every time if you give in, if you try to explore why that even happens, or if you fight it. So even if you start with that background, you're not locked in to play a serial killer, there's still choice, everywhere.

Their team went out of their way to even make all the companions' development branch out fairly early. That means you don't get the same talks every time and only shortly before endgame times there will be like two different paths for them, but in or after Act 1 it already begins that they can develop in different ways. That means a *lot* of extra writing involved there, and that's a dedication to choices and variety that needs to be really appreciated.
The approval system has also gone a long way since the "buying of points" in Dragon Age, or the simple agreement with their points of view from their own Divinity: Original Sin 2, they made it clear that it's more than just taking decisions they're OK with or agreeing with their viewpoint. Sometimes it's also about challenging their views, trying to make them see a different perspective, being influenced by the path you take.
That can, as is normal with real people, make some of them turn away from or even against you at some point, which is only fair, they aren't puppets, at least not yours. And depending on your own path and your bond with them, it can lead to influences and changes, so in later points in the game they might approve of and support decisions and actions that they wouldn't have been OK with under different circumstances.
It's more complex than "Get the good romance outcome with Shadowheart if you reply X and kill no spiders, get the romance fail with Halsin if you want no bear sex, side with the Harpers and Astarion will murder you in your sleep".

We might actually all play with the same party, romance the same companion(s) and yet result in playing completely different games, with much more than only yes and no, Shadow Thieves or Bodhi, romance or no romance, success or failure options, and that is something so, so cool.
 

Zaxares

Habitué
Messages
79
I've still yet to watch the last Panel (or read a summary about it) so this reply is based purely off reading that Kotaku article and what you guys have said.

1. Firstly, the Halsin Bear scene did make me raise an eyebrow, but I'm not really bothered by it. As Urdnot mentioned, it's not truly an animal, but a humanoid changed to look like one, so the core issue of informed consent is in the clear. The player isn't FORCED to go through with it, and Larian allows us to give a wide range of replies to befit how the player feels about the situation. D&D (and mythology) has a long and storied/lurid tradition of such odd pairings, with things ranging from Half-Dragons to the original conception of the Minotaur, so in my opinion, this isn't really anything that hasn't come before. (In fact, during my long years as a D&D player and DM, I have heard so, SO many jokes about players getting intimate with a Druid and then the Druid wild shaping into an animal at the worst possible time. "Boar becomes Ferocious!")

2. I'm assuming the polyamory thing (which personally isn't for me, but I do have real life friends who are in such relationships) is something that the player has to actively seek out and work towards, so again, it's in the player's own hands as to whether or not they'll ever see this content. Nonetheless, again, there is lore and precedent for such relationships existing in various cultures in Faerun, or even in real life. (Concubines were a long-accepted tradition among many ruling houses, for instance, a perhaps necessary establishment given the insistence on male primogeniture succession for much of history.) If the player wishes to pursue it, the option is open, and if they wish to refuse it, that option is also open.

3. Did Larian specify whether being able to change the class of origin characters refers to the origin character YOU'RE playing? Or any of them? I mean, it's one thing to change the class of the origin character if you're the MC (and in fact, the MC having little to no voiced lines suddenly makes sense as a design decision if this was Larian's plan all along), but changing the class of them while they're companions could throw some very complicated wrenches into their stories/dialogue. For example, if you could change Shadowheart's class to Barbarian instead of Cleric, I imagine that her telling you tales about how she's a priest of Shar are now going to sound very, very odd coming from her as a companion.

@Urdnot: I would also like to remind the gallery that Imoen was introduced as a last minute companion because people got annoyed at being forced to bring along Montaron for their party Thief and she wound up becoming one of the most beloved characters in the series. ;)
 

Antimatter

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
1,773
Sure, from their FAQ:

Can I change the class of the Origin characters when I recruit them?
Not during Early Access, but we are planning to provide that option at launch.
We only have this old part here. But what I think would happen is that (when you don't play as the Origin char yourself), you can actually multi-class them. Back when the FAQ was published, they didn't know if MCing would make it to the game, now it will. This way, you'll be essentially able to turn the char into another class at lvl 2. But that is only my take.

The polyamory thing was present in one of the most hardcore crpgs ever, Pathfinder: Kingmaker. The more we get opportunities to do that in games, the better. It's not a blood sacrifice, you know.

And the blood sacrifice part, I can recall blood magic from the Dragon Age universe where you literally did just that.

When Kotaku spins the narrative like that, it's done for the clicks and eyeballs. I'm sure 90% of people who see a 30/20-second clip with the bear have no idea it's about a druid and D&D, and everything else, and just go for the "bear f***" instead.
 

Zaxares

Habitué
Messages
79
And the blood sacrifice part, I can recall blood magic from the Dragon Age universe where you literally did just that.
It was also something you could do in Jade Empire, another older Bioware RPG, where if you wanted to take the evil path and usurp the Water Dragon's power, you had to murder one of your companions and pour their blood into the Water Dragon's open wounds.
 

Antimatter

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
1,773
"Baldur's Gate 3 might seem like a game destined to be broken apart every which way, but Larian appears to have thought of everything. Smith recounts the time the team first made it to the rooftops of Baldur's Gate itself: "What we realized very quickly is that people will get everywhere. And then we need to put invisible walls up and we need to take away Flight. But we weren't going to do that." It was at that point, he says, that he felt he was no longer making an RPG. Instead, Baldur's Gate 3 had become an immersive sim in the vein of Thief, Deus Ex, or Dishonored.

Smith adds: "It was only when we got to the city that we realized we had to go from 'what's behind this waterfall' to 'what's in these 50 houses?', or 'this person came up through the sewers, so how do people react?'" My favorite examples were the newspapers available around Baldur's Gate, which will react to your actions – albeit not always truthfully. Those sensationalist headlines will shape how the people in the city react to your presence, further dictating how certain quests play out.

In many ways, this is the perfect homage to D&D, a game designed to offer the player almost any freedom they can imagine. That totality remains beyond the scope of a video game, but it's clear that it's what Baldur's Gate is trying to emulate, and it comes staggeringly close. You can feel the hand of a seasoned Dungeon Master at the helm, steering conversation, character, and quests into this spider's web of narrative."

 

Antimatter

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
1,773
A ton of new details from WolfheartFPS:



Also, from his comment: Can confirm (I asked two people who got to play) that you CAN change your class at the respec guy AND this should also be possible for companions/ origins as well.

Wow.

Edit: re-uploaded a new link after YT had removed the previous video by the streamer
 
Last edited:

Antimatter

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
1,773
An interview with the lead system designer, Nick Pechenin. It's in Italian, but you can use Google translate:


A few snippets (with the translator):

"We've changed a couple of ground rules, just to remove possible friction with multiclassing. If you know the rules of the fifth edition of Dungeons and Dragons, you surely know that in order to multiclass there are stat limits that you must respect: we have removed them, there are no more stat requirements and you can make a character with multiple classes in any moment. There's even an achievement that requires you to get to level 12 with a level in every single class. Of course, it will be very difficult for some players, but it is made possible by this removal of limits."

"The original level cap was actually supposed to be 10. We decided on 12 during early access because the community was clamoring for the introduction of so-called "power levels" and we felt it was important to give more levels where the player gets a "talent", because talents really help a lot to customize your character."

"Sometimes the players recommend excellent solutions, other times their solutions are not applicable for some reason, but if there is a complaint something has given rise to it and it is still the case to investigate. To give an example of the biggest feature that is present in the game due to early access, I can tell you about the reaction system: the community has wanted it in the game since the beginning and has been clamoring for it, and at the end of the game a lot the focus shifts to interesting reactions in combat (countermagic, divine punishments of the paladin, etc); we also wanted to capture some goodies possible thanks to the rules - such as divine punishments during critical hits - and therefore at some point, we realized that we had to implement everything, but also having to go beyond the rules of the D&D player's core rulebook. So we set about studying the forums and observing how players apply certain rules during games that are sometimes not specified in the rulebooks... Yeah well, back to square one, without the community, these discussions and feedback we wouldn't have a reaction system in Baldur's Gate 3."

And an opinion by Jeremy Peel on BG1&2 connections:

"Baldur’s Gate 3 has long been pitched as a game that stands alone - more an attempt to capture the spirit of tabletop Dungeons & Dragons than a direct sequel to Bioware’s first ever RPGs. Yet as its August 3rd release date approaches, thematic links to the original Baldur’s Gate games are beginning to emerge. Back then, we played a Bhaalspawn - potential heir to the throne of the god of murder, whose inner darkness slowly bubbled to the surface as the series wore on. The parallels with the Dark Urge’s undercurrent of awfulness are clear, and once you’re looking, you start to see the shape of that suppressed danger everywhere.

It’s there in the newly announced companion Karlach, a tiefling barbarian whose infernal engine threatens to burn her up - the flames already licking at the horns on her head. And it beats in the heart of Gale, whose chest houses a Netherese Destruction Orb which, if not disarmed, will eventually explode like a nuke. Then there are the tadpoles that live in the head of every character who survives the Nautiloid ship crash in Baldur’s Gate 3’s opening - slowly transforming their hosts into tentacle-faced Mind Flayers. In each case, there’s a tantalising power to be harnessed - tempting you to embrace that inner darkness even as it destroys you and your friends.

“This was the magical link, you just followed it,” says Swen Vincke, Larian’s CEO and creative director. “That’s literally it. Whenever we judged the main story or companion stories, it was always against that. You’ve got this monstrosity forming inside of you. Embracing it comes with benefits, and non-benefits. So what are you going to do? What are you ready to sacrifice for it? And can you convince others of what your cause is going to be? That’s what the game is.”

 

Antimatter

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
1,773
I mean, it's one thing to change the class of the origin character if you're the MC (and in fact, the MC having little to no voiced lines suddenly makes sense as a design decision if this was Larian's plan all along), but changing the class of them while they're companions could throw some very complicated wrenches into their stories/dialogue. For example, if you could change Shadowheart's class to Barbarian instead of Cleric, I imagine that her telling you tales about how she's a priest of Shar are now going to sound very, very odd coming from her as a companion.


The new Fextralife video explains this. You can change the class of the origin characters who are your companions, but they'll lose certain dialogue options related to the initial class.

However, there is a huge backlash going on. And the streamer had to write a comment under the video: "I was told that even though this is possible in the current build, it might not make full release."

If it's indeed like this, people who complained about the availability of a respec option for companions, will win, and people like me, who didn't mind and actually wanted that, will lose. I want a respec option because most likely, it'll be the only way for me to be free with my party based on their personalities and not default classes. What if I want to be a Rogue but also like Astarion? What if I want Karlach as a ranger and not a melee fighter? Also, with the replayability aspect, this limitation is harmful.
 
Top Bottom