alice_ashpool
Habitué
- Messages
- 572
We have essentially reached the apotheosis of WotR, where even creatures mysterious and magical die in a single round hail of AoOs. Woljif's Leading Strike putting in work.
Pathfinder: Kingmaker and Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous General Discussion, Playthroughs and Minimal/No Reload Thread
- Thread starter alice_ashpool
- Start date
alice_ashpool
Habitué
- Messages
- 572
I have worked out a different late-game strategy for Camellia. I was always a bit miffed that her AC just fell a tiny bit short, and with the new Beta, it looks like Doublestacking Magical vestment is out so that is something of a loss.
Now Cam's early game damage comes mostly from fencing grace, allowing her to put dex to damage so long as she is using her rapier (or equivalent) and she has nothing heavier than a buckler in her offhand. But actually late game, once you throw in Frightful Aspect she is getting +6 Size bonus to Strength, so the discrepancy between Str and Dex narrows. Combine this with Elemental Barrage to take advantage of her Spirit Weapon Enchant and that Dex only gets her (approx) 3 extra points of damage per hit out of a whole world of pain.
So where is this going. Well, you can give her a level in fighter once she has access to level 9 spells (I did at level 19) which gets her Shield Proficiency then slap a Heavy Shield on her since she is a Divine Caster not Arcane. Voila, she suddenly has access to some good shields (bucklers are almost all terrible). While the AC increase is not much, she has access to some shields with very powerful modifiers - e.g. I have her with the Hand of the Inheritor's Assertion of Dominance (Slashing and Piercing Immunity at Full Health).
It's a trade off.
Now Cam's early game damage comes mostly from fencing grace, allowing her to put dex to damage so long as she is using her rapier (or equivalent) and she has nothing heavier than a buckler in her offhand. But actually late game, once you throw in Frightful Aspect she is getting +6 Size bonus to Strength, so the discrepancy between Str and Dex narrows. Combine this with Elemental Barrage to take advantage of her Spirit Weapon Enchant and that Dex only gets her (approx) 3 extra points of damage per hit out of a whole world of pain.
So where is this going. Well, you can give her a level in fighter once she has access to level 9 spells (I did at level 19) which gets her Shield Proficiency then slap a Heavy Shield on her since she is a Divine Caster not Arcane. Voila, she suddenly has access to some good shields (bucklers are almost all terrible). While the AC increase is not much, she has access to some shields with very powerful modifiers - e.g. I have her with the Hand of the Inheritor's Assertion of Dominance (Slashing and Piercing Immunity at Full Health).
It's a trade off.
alice_ashpool
Habitué
- Messages
- 572
We made it to 20 - that's one young lady you don't want to mess with
alice_ashpool
Habitué
- Messages
- 572
Finished Enigma for the first time - all in one rest. Didn't do this on my previous run because I just wanted the game over and done with by this point! Slew a Demon Lord without anyone in the party taking any damage. What a great fight. Puzzles... so so, not my thing. Dungeon design sans puzzles: pretty good and fun.
Eve had no issues. Everything exploded.
Eve had no issues. Everything exploded.
- Messages
- 673
Enigma is one of those things you finish once then never want to see the damn thing again...
alice_ashpool
Habitué
- Messages
- 572
There can be only one!
alice_ashpool
Habitué
- Messages
- 572
- Messages
- 1,757
OHHHHHH! THAT'S SO COOL! CONGRATS! 
And thanks a lot for these status updates and thoughts about the game/builds/tips!
And thanks a lot for these status updates and thoughts about the game/builds/tips!
alice_ashpool
Habitué
- Messages
- 572
The reason I got the core achievement as well is that the only other time I went all the way through the game was early after release and I had to turn Threshold down to Story Mode due to a combination of bugged demon path and Vavlakia Vanguard + Desolating Gallu Stormcasters 
almost 900 hours and only completed it twice
Threshold is still a huge difficulty spike - the enemies are just about as tough, and I can see it just wrecking a "normal playthrough" on Core as you collpase in saying wtf is this. But I have had lots of practice now so it was not as bad as it could have been. Desolating Gallu Stormcasters are still the hardest enemy though Ring of Evasion + high reflexes really helps and mostly means 0 damage.
almost 900 hours and only completed it twice
Threshold is still a huge difficulty spike - the enemies are just about as tough, and I can see it just wrecking a "normal playthrough" on Core as you collpase in saying wtf is this. But I have had lots of practice now so it was not as bad as it could have been. Desolating Gallu Stormcasters are still the hardest enemy though Ring of Evasion + high reflexes really helps and mostly means 0 damage.
alice_ashpool
Habitué
- Messages
- 572
Wrath of the Righteous Core Last Azlanti MC Final Build
Traditional Monk (1) Eldritch Scoundrel (16) Mutation Warrior (3)
Mythic Path: Demon
Self-imposed rules: Must be a melee character. No pain no gain.
Rationale: An AC untouchable 2-handed sneak + crit-based (final 13-20 x3) damage dealer with very high saves and decent, though not spectacular damage and a high numbers of skill points. Frankly, a demon who can do everything.
Starting Stats:
Str: 7
Dex: 19 (All points here)
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 16
Cha: 7
Background: Acolyte (Wis instead of Cha for Persuasion)
Skills: Mobility (20), Trickery (19), Stealth (20), Perception (20), Persuasion (20), Use Magic Device (1)
Levelling:
1 (Traditional Monk): Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Elven Curved Blade; Dodge; Crane Style
2 (Eldritch Scoundrel 1): (free weapon finesse, sneak attack for actually doing some damage)
3 (Eldritch Scoundrel 2): Weapon Focus: Elven Curved Blade; First rogue talent: Slippery Mind
4 (Eldritch Scoundrel 3): Finesse Training: Elven Curved Blade
5 (Eldritch Scoundrel 4): (gain debilitation - usually I do AC penalty)
6 (Eldritch Scoundrel 5): Combat Expertise
7 (Eldritch Scoundrel 6): Outflank (teamwork feat - every melee takes)
8 (Eldritch Scoundrel 7): Second Rogue Talent: Uncanny Dodge
9 (Eldritch Scoundrel 8): Shake It Off (teamwork feat - everyone takes except Nenio who needs feats for Loremaster)
10 (Eldritch Scoundrel 9)
11 (Eldritch Scoundrel 10): Improved Critical (Elven Curved Blade)
12 (Eldritch Scoundrel 11): Finesse Training Kama (just in case we need 1 extra dodge AC Eve can swap to Offense by Défense and still do some damage)
13 (Eldritch Scoundrel 12) Improved Initiative and the amazing rogue talent: Double Debilitation (currently -6AB and -6AC debuff on hitting an enemy - will increase to -8/-8 though only for self, -2/-2 for allies)
14 (Eldritch Scoundrel 13)
15 (Eldritch Scoundrel 14) Crane wing
16 (Eldritch Scoundrel 15) Rogue Talent: Opportunist
17 (Eldritch Scoundrel 16) Iron WIll
18 (Mutation Warrior 1) Crane Riposte
19 (Mutation Warrior 2) Lightning Reflexes, Blind Fight
20 (Mutation Warrior 3) Mutagen
Discussion on above: Obviously its a dip mix. Opinions may vary, but the comparison between Woljif and this character is that woljif can dish out more damage, but this is much safer with at least 20 or so more AC and higher saves.
The basic structure is:
Dex and Wisdom to AC
Dex to AB and Damage
Feats to increase AC, Increase Saves and increase AB and Crits.
Play: Buff fully, march into war and start swinging with Camellia just behind and an optional Woljif too.
Why three levels of mutation warrior at the end? Having already lost the capstone abilities through the monk-dip then the next "essential point" for Eldritch Scoundrel is level 16 where their debilitating injury/double debilitation debuffs reach -8, you get 2nd Advanced Rogue Talent and Level 6 spells (which means Sorcerous Reflex works on level 4 spells). Theoretically that gives 3 levels to play with, which I shoved into Mutation Warrior for: 2 more Feats, 1 higher BAB, Dex Mutagen (dex give a wisdom malus so: +2AB, +2Dam, +1AC, -1 Will). What we lose here is essentially limited to spell slots and level 6 spells are less than stellar especially if you have Nenio who can fill any gaps. This gives us 5/5/5/4/3/1 slots. The other loss is caster level, which will effect the length of our buffs and make us easier to dispel, fortunately dispels are relatively limited in the game.
Other points:
Firstly, I would 100% ditch Crane wing and Riposte - that's 2 feat for very little which often bugs out. Throw in Either Dazzling Display + Shatter Defences, or something else.
Secondly, you will see that not going 2-weapon fighting frees up a lot of feats, though we do need Exotic Weapon: Elven Curved Blade. I enjoyed using this weapon as it is finesse and you can get 1.5x dex to damage with it. It does limit sneak attacks, but in the later game getting sneak attacks can be quite difficult anyway, they are not the be all and end all of the game. It also helps differentiate from Woljif.
Thirdly, don't be fooled by the Str-drain and Con-drain abilities for rogues. They are cool, but here your number of Rogue talents is limited to two. Double Debilitation is the 100% must have, -8AB/-AC for enemies on hit. Opportunist is a free extra Attack of Opportunity (with Ever Ready AB boosts of up to +10) every round. Those work out as much more powerful than the chipping of str drain. You can also have Woljif as Eldritch Scoundrel (20) who can go for drain if you want - which then synergises.
Mythics:
Absolutely take Close to the Abyss - you have few attacks so an extra one is nice.
1: Every Ready
2: Sorcerous Reflex
3: Archmage Armor
4: Mythic Improved Critical (ECB)
5: Inspirational Leader
6: Iron Will (Mythic)
7: Rupture Restraints
8: Mythic Resolve (In hindsight I would take Flawless Attacks but was playing it safe)
9: Unstoppable
10: Either Flawless Attacks or Elemental Barrage for the final fight (proc through Jharsygax and Devitaliser)
Minor Demonic Aspects: Succubus and Nabasu (Saving throw bonus, AB debuff aura) first, then in whichever order you please.
Major Demonic Aspects: Shadow Demon (Wis bonus, Incorporeal during Rage) and Omox (DR/-, Grapple on attack during rage; this could be exchanged with something else), followed by Balor (For the Constitution boost)
Demon Lord Aspects: Areshkagal (a second layer of un-bypassable 50% miss change); Nocticula (for the final fight, can rage up Camellia to take down Areelu)
Equipment
Head: Wisdom+Int circlets/Bookworms Headband, working up to Darkness Caress +8
Amulet: Mighty/Agile Fists (for gore attack) working to Sarzaksys Payza (Immunity to Necromancy Spells while Demonic Raging); Alternatively: Half of a Pair with Camellia
Glasses: Goggles of Piercing Gaze (+10 Persuasion, +1 Insight bonus to AB and Damage)
Armor: None
Shirt: Silky Veil (+1 dodge AC) -> Robe of Angelic Prudence (Greater Angelic Aspect at will)
Cloak: Working up to Resistance +6
Belt: Anything useful -> Flawless Belt of Physical Perfection +8
Ring 1: Rings of Protection -> Flawless Ring of Protection +7
Ring 2: Anything, working towards Ring of Immanent Demise (+2 competence to AB and damage with 2-handed weapons; Attempt to knock down on AoO)
Gloves: Claws of Sacred Beast (Bugged +1 AB +1 damage)
Boots: Boots of Free Rein to Boots of Freest Rein (Perma freedom of movement and +10 move speed)
Bracers: Lucky Bracers
Weapons:
1. Regular: Finnean +3 (You will need this to make up for your AB and ensure you are hitting all the way through to the end)
2 For the Undead: Masterwork/+1 -> Vermin Bane -> Second Change (Bugged but should stack +3AB every hit) and/or Final Glance (Chance to Blind, more damage against Blinded enemies)
3. End game: Devitaliser (The best looking weapon of all and if you want more Elemental Barrage the one you need)
Others:
Offense by Defense Kama (If you absolutely need an extra 1AC for some reason)
Belt: Covenant of Inheritor, Lucky Dice, Old Grimoire (this offsets our lack of Abundant Casting nicely), Jharsygax, Extend Metamagic Rod
---
Buffs
Early Game Buffs:
Mage Armor, Shield, Reduce Person, Aid (extra HP), False Life, Blur -> Displacement -> Improved Invisibility; Barkskin, Mirror Image, Protection from Evil, Sense Vitals, Magic Vestment, Prayer, Bless-> Heroism, Greater Magic Weapon, Crusader's Edge, Haste, Delay Poison
Owl's Wisdom, Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength (to offset Reduce person and ensure not Medium Encumbrance) Cat's Grace are great but can be ditched once the respective headbands/belts are obtained and/or camellia can drop communal versions for the have-nots.
Late Game Additions:
Abyssal Skin, Flames of the Abyss, Lifebane; Foresight, False Life, greater; True Seeing, Communal; Thoughsense; Firebrand; Holy Word; Angelic Aspect, Greater (from Robe of Angelic Prudence) Greater Heroism and Heroic Invocation (HP bonus stacks), Mind Blank, communal (bite the bullet and use 2 of Nenio's slots); Spell resistance, Death Ward, Legendary proportions (There comes a point where the benefits of being huge offset the penalties of a Dex MC being huge - right around act 4; Stacks with reduce person but don't tell anyone), Transformation*
*if you're feeling wild!
---
This "build" is intended to synergise with specific party members with complimentary feats, tactics and buffs.
Always in:
Camellia (Every nascent demon lord needs a right hand): Near-untouchable Front-liner, Buff-haver, Elemental Barrage proc-er, Frightful Aspect-er; Summoner, Attack of Opportunity chain triggerer.
Daeran (you will be using combat healing a lot more on last azlanti because you will be nervous!): Mass Healer, Buff-haver, Hellfire Ray thrower, Firestorm dropper, Maximised Breath of Life user; Resurrectioner and Restorationeer
Nenio (The one you have to drag along): If you really want the Weird Lady; Persistent Putrefaction Producer; Many Buffs; Secondary Frightful Aspect; the odd bit of damage if you can be bothered - demonstrably better as an Enchantment Specialist due to gear but most rounds she just twiddles her fox thumbs due to lazyness. Looks pretty with Seamantle + Fiery Body + Ice Body up at the same time.
Usually in:
Arueshalae (Skills just too high to not have): Sickening Quarry + Instant Enemy + Ranger's Bond. Arrows for days, Trash clearer, Playful Darkness slayer. Note that Corrupt Aru is a downgrade because you cant get full Instant Enemy because she can't decide if she hates humans or dwarfs more.
Alternating:
Woljif (tweedle dum to MCs tweedle dee): Absurd Damage Man
Lann: person with druid boar for early game.
Wenduag (After a little "exchange"): Trash clearer
Traditional Monk (1) Eldritch Scoundrel (16) Mutation Warrior (3)
Mythic Path: Demon
Self-imposed rules: Must be a melee character. No pain no gain.
Rationale: An AC untouchable 2-handed sneak + crit-based (final 13-20 x3) damage dealer with very high saves and decent, though not spectacular damage and a high numbers of skill points. Frankly, a demon who can do everything.
Starting Stats:
Str: 7
Dex: 19 (All points here)
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 16
Cha: 7
Background: Acolyte (Wis instead of Cha for Persuasion)
Skills: Mobility (20), Trickery (19), Stealth (20), Perception (20), Persuasion (20), Use Magic Device (1)
Levelling:
1 (Traditional Monk): Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Elven Curved Blade; Dodge; Crane Style
2 (Eldritch Scoundrel 1): (free weapon finesse, sneak attack for actually doing some damage)
3 (Eldritch Scoundrel 2): Weapon Focus: Elven Curved Blade; First rogue talent: Slippery Mind
4 (Eldritch Scoundrel 3): Finesse Training: Elven Curved Blade
5 (Eldritch Scoundrel 4): (gain debilitation - usually I do AC penalty)
6 (Eldritch Scoundrel 5): Combat Expertise
7 (Eldritch Scoundrel 6): Outflank (teamwork feat - every melee takes)
8 (Eldritch Scoundrel 7): Second Rogue Talent: Uncanny Dodge
9 (Eldritch Scoundrel 8): Shake It Off (teamwork feat - everyone takes except Nenio who needs feats for Loremaster)
10 (Eldritch Scoundrel 9)
11 (Eldritch Scoundrel 10): Improved Critical (Elven Curved Blade)
12 (Eldritch Scoundrel 11): Finesse Training Kama (just in case we need 1 extra dodge AC Eve can swap to Offense by Défense and still do some damage)
13 (Eldritch Scoundrel 12) Improved Initiative and the amazing rogue talent: Double Debilitation (currently -6AB and -6AC debuff on hitting an enemy - will increase to -8/-8 though only for self, -2/-2 for allies)
14 (Eldritch Scoundrel 13)
15 (Eldritch Scoundrel 14) Crane wing
16 (Eldritch Scoundrel 15) Rogue Talent: Opportunist
17 (Eldritch Scoundrel 16) Iron WIll
18 (Mutation Warrior 1) Crane Riposte
19 (Mutation Warrior 2) Lightning Reflexes, Blind Fight
20 (Mutation Warrior 3) Mutagen
Discussion on above: Obviously its a dip mix. Opinions may vary, but the comparison between Woljif and this character is that woljif can dish out more damage, but this is much safer with at least 20 or so more AC and higher saves.
The basic structure is:
Dex and Wisdom to AC
Dex to AB and Damage
Feats to increase AC, Increase Saves and increase AB and Crits.
Play: Buff fully, march into war and start swinging with Camellia just behind and an optional Woljif too.
Why three levels of mutation warrior at the end? Having already lost the capstone abilities through the monk-dip then the next "essential point" for Eldritch Scoundrel is level 16 where their debilitating injury/double debilitation debuffs reach -8, you get 2nd Advanced Rogue Talent and Level 6 spells (which means Sorcerous Reflex works on level 4 spells). Theoretically that gives 3 levels to play with, which I shoved into Mutation Warrior for: 2 more Feats, 1 higher BAB, Dex Mutagen (dex give a wisdom malus so: +2AB, +2Dam, +1AC, -1 Will). What we lose here is essentially limited to spell slots and level 6 spells are less than stellar especially if you have Nenio who can fill any gaps. This gives us 5/5/5/4/3/1 slots. The other loss is caster level, which will effect the length of our buffs and make us easier to dispel, fortunately dispels are relatively limited in the game.
Other points:
Firstly, I would 100% ditch Crane wing and Riposte - that's 2 feat for very little which often bugs out. Throw in Either Dazzling Display + Shatter Defences, or something else.
Secondly, you will see that not going 2-weapon fighting frees up a lot of feats, though we do need Exotic Weapon: Elven Curved Blade. I enjoyed using this weapon as it is finesse and you can get 1.5x dex to damage with it. It does limit sneak attacks, but in the later game getting sneak attacks can be quite difficult anyway, they are not the be all and end all of the game. It also helps differentiate from Woljif.
Thirdly, don't be fooled by the Str-drain and Con-drain abilities for rogues. They are cool, but here your number of Rogue talents is limited to two. Double Debilitation is the 100% must have, -8AB/-AC for enemies on hit. Opportunist is a free extra Attack of Opportunity (with Ever Ready AB boosts of up to +10) every round. Those work out as much more powerful than the chipping of str drain. You can also have Woljif as Eldritch Scoundrel (20) who can go for drain if you want - which then synergises.
Mythics:
Absolutely take Close to the Abyss - you have few attacks so an extra one is nice.
1: Every Ready
2: Sorcerous Reflex
3: Archmage Armor
4: Mythic Improved Critical (ECB)
5: Inspirational Leader
6: Iron Will (Mythic)
7: Rupture Restraints
8: Mythic Resolve (In hindsight I would take Flawless Attacks but was playing it safe)
9: Unstoppable
10: Either Flawless Attacks or Elemental Barrage for the final fight (proc through Jharsygax and Devitaliser)
Minor Demonic Aspects: Succubus and Nabasu (Saving throw bonus, AB debuff aura) first, then in whichever order you please.
Major Demonic Aspects: Shadow Demon (Wis bonus, Incorporeal during Rage) and Omox (DR/-, Grapple on attack during rage; this could be exchanged with something else), followed by Balor (For the Constitution boost)
Demon Lord Aspects: Areshkagal (a second layer of un-bypassable 50% miss change); Nocticula (for the final fight, can rage up Camellia to take down Areelu)
Equipment
Head: Wisdom+Int circlets/Bookworms Headband, working up to Darkness Caress +8
Amulet: Mighty/Agile Fists (for gore attack) working to Sarzaksys Payza (Immunity to Necromancy Spells while Demonic Raging); Alternatively: Half of a Pair with Camellia
Glasses: Goggles of Piercing Gaze (+10 Persuasion, +1 Insight bonus to AB and Damage)
Armor: None
Shirt: Silky Veil (+1 dodge AC) -> Robe of Angelic Prudence (Greater Angelic Aspect at will)
Cloak: Working up to Resistance +6
Belt: Anything useful -> Flawless Belt of Physical Perfection +8
Ring 1: Rings of Protection -> Flawless Ring of Protection +7
Ring 2: Anything, working towards Ring of Immanent Demise (+2 competence to AB and damage with 2-handed weapons; Attempt to knock down on AoO)
Gloves: Claws of Sacred Beast (Bugged +1 AB +1 damage)
Boots: Boots of Free Rein to Boots of Freest Rein (Perma freedom of movement and +10 move speed)
Bracers: Lucky Bracers
Weapons:
1. Regular: Finnean +3 (You will need this to make up for your AB and ensure you are hitting all the way through to the end)
2 For the Undead: Masterwork/+1 -> Vermin Bane -> Second Change (Bugged but should stack +3AB every hit) and/or Final Glance (Chance to Blind, more damage against Blinded enemies)
3. End game: Devitaliser (The best looking weapon of all and if you want more Elemental Barrage the one you need)
Others:
Offense by Defense Kama (If you absolutely need an extra 1AC for some reason)
Belt: Covenant of Inheritor, Lucky Dice, Old Grimoire (this offsets our lack of Abundant Casting nicely), Jharsygax, Extend Metamagic Rod
---
Buffs
Early Game Buffs:
Mage Armor, Shield, Reduce Person, Aid (extra HP), False Life, Blur -> Displacement -> Improved Invisibility; Barkskin, Mirror Image, Protection from Evil, Sense Vitals, Magic Vestment, Prayer, Bless-> Heroism, Greater Magic Weapon, Crusader's Edge, Haste, Delay Poison
Owl's Wisdom, Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength (to offset Reduce person and ensure not Medium Encumbrance) Cat's Grace are great but can be ditched once the respective headbands/belts are obtained and/or camellia can drop communal versions for the have-nots.
Late Game Additions:
Abyssal Skin, Flames of the Abyss, Lifebane; Foresight, False Life, greater; True Seeing, Communal; Thoughsense; Firebrand; Holy Word; Angelic Aspect, Greater (from Robe of Angelic Prudence) Greater Heroism and Heroic Invocation (HP bonus stacks), Mind Blank, communal (bite the bullet and use 2 of Nenio's slots); Spell resistance, Death Ward, Legendary proportions (There comes a point where the benefits of being huge offset the penalties of a Dex MC being huge - right around act 4; Stacks with reduce person but don't tell anyone), Transformation*
*if you're feeling wild!
---
This "build" is intended to synergise with specific party members with complimentary feats, tactics and buffs.
Always in:
Camellia (Every nascent demon lord needs a right hand): Near-untouchable Front-liner, Buff-haver, Elemental Barrage proc-er, Frightful Aspect-er; Summoner, Attack of Opportunity chain triggerer.
Daeran (you will be using combat healing a lot more on last azlanti because you will be nervous!): Mass Healer, Buff-haver, Hellfire Ray thrower, Firestorm dropper, Maximised Breath of Life user; Resurrectioner and Restorationeer
Nenio (The one you have to drag along): If you really want the Weird Lady; Persistent Putrefaction Producer; Many Buffs; Secondary Frightful Aspect; the odd bit of damage if you can be bothered - demonstrably better as an Enchantment Specialist due to gear but most rounds she just twiddles her fox thumbs due to lazyness. Looks pretty with Seamantle + Fiery Body + Ice Body up at the same time.
Usually in:
Arueshalae (Skills just too high to not have): Sickening Quarry + Instant Enemy + Ranger's Bond. Arrows for days, Trash clearer, Playful Darkness slayer. Note that Corrupt Aru is a downgrade because you cant get full Instant Enemy because she can't decide if she hates humans or dwarfs more.
Alternating:
Woljif (tweedle dum to MCs tweedle dee): Absurd Damage Man
Lann: person with druid boar for early game.
Wenduag (After a little "exchange"): Trash clearer
Last edited:
alice_ashpool
Habitué
- Messages
- 572
Enough time spend on the disgusting fleshy succubus wings to capture that revulsion:
美玲 陈
Meiling Chen
美玲 陈
Meiling Chen
alice_ashpool
Habitué
- Messages
- 572
Wrath of the Righteous Core Last Azlanti Camellia Final Build
Self imposed rules: No gimmicky hexes like protective luck. Choose these if you want to play easy mode. Counterpoint: risk is its own reward.
1 Spirit Hunter 1 Fixed by game: Weapon Finesse, Skill focus Trickery, Object Bond
2 Spirit Hunter 2 Hex: Battle Ward (rationale: not much use later on, but this really helps early on as it outpaces shield of faith. Taking a hit to get through the early game safe)
3 Spirit Hunter 3 Weapon Focus: Rapier
4 Spirit Hunter 4 Hex: Iceplant (MC is at the front so we could delay this slightly)
5 Spirit Hunter 5 Fencing Grace: Rapier
6 Spirit Hunter 6
7 Spirit Hunter 7 Teamwork Feat: Outflank
8 Spirit Hunter 8 Hex: battle master
9 Spirit Hunter 9 Teamwork Feat: Shake it off
10 Spirit Hunter 10 Hex: intimidating display (for shatter defenses)
11 Spirit Hunter 11 Dodge
12 Spirit Hunter 12 Hex: Aura of Purity (Could be swapped for Extend Metamagic but took since Life Bubble was nerfed)
13 Spirit Hunter 13 Shatter Defences
14 Spirit Hunter 14 Improved Initiative
15 Spirit Hunter 15
16 Spirit Hunter 16 Hex: Metamagic Heighten (So you can fill your useless slots with useful things - Skeletons for days, or just another Frightful Aspect.)
17 Spirit Hunter 17 Shield Focus (buyers choice really)
18 Spirit Hunter 18 Hex: Air Barrier
19 Fighter 1 Lightning Reflexes, Missile Shield
20 Fighter 2 Combat Expertise
Mythics
1 Abundant Casting
2 Sorcerous Reflex
3 Improved Abundant Casting
4 Weapon Focus (mythic): rapier
5 Elemental Barrage
6 Second Spirit: Wind
7 Greater Abundant Casting
8 Improved Initiative (mythic)
9 Rupture Restraints (This might be a good place to take Ever Ready)
10 Flawless Attacks (or anything else useful)
Equipment
Head: Circlets, or maybe something else like the initiative helmet, working up to Mental Perfection +6
Amulet: Whatever is good, moving to something like Half of a Pair with MC or Amulet of Deep Roots for Example
Glasses: Rascals Goggles (+10 Competence to Perception and Trickery)
Armor: High Max dex chainshirts -> Air Barrier + Impending Eclipse Haramaki (Elemental Damage Immunity for first 3 rounds of combat)
Shirt: Anything available e.g. Alchemist's Shirt
Cloak: Call to Violence +4 (+2AB+2Damage to Raging allies in 30-feet aura)
Belt: Pristine Mind +4 (Auto-confirms crits)
Ring 1: Icy Protector
Ring 2: Ring of Evasion (100% essential for zero damage on reflex save)
Gloves: Anything interesting -> Star Embroidered Gloves (SR30, +2 luck to saves)
Boots: Spirit Trackers (+4 uses of Spirit Weapon per day)
Bracers: Anything good, Bracers of Rough landing are surprisingly useful (+2 competence to AC, AB and Damage against flying enemies)
Weapons:
All the various rapiers up to Translucent Needle of Astonishment +5 (An absurd on first hit: Paralyse on fail save, Auto stagger for 1 round otherwise)
Shield:
Mediocre Bucklers until Level 19 then switch to Large Shield e.g. Assertion of Dominance (A ridiculous Piercing/Slashing Immunity at full health, just keep false life, Greater heroism etc buffer up for permanent immunities - immune to arrows is pretty powerful in Threshold!) Damage Reduction is small (around 3 points/hit if Frightful Aspected as you should be)
Belt: Maximise Rods for Summons, Extend Rods for Buffs
Self imposed rules: No gimmicky hexes like protective luck. Choose these if you want to play easy mode. Counterpoint: risk is its own reward.
1 Spirit Hunter 1 Fixed by game: Weapon Finesse, Skill focus Trickery, Object Bond
2 Spirit Hunter 2 Hex: Battle Ward (rationale: not much use later on, but this really helps early on as it outpaces shield of faith. Taking a hit to get through the early game safe)
3 Spirit Hunter 3 Weapon Focus: Rapier
4 Spirit Hunter 4 Hex: Iceplant (MC is at the front so we could delay this slightly)
5 Spirit Hunter 5 Fencing Grace: Rapier
6 Spirit Hunter 6
7 Spirit Hunter 7 Teamwork Feat: Outflank
8 Spirit Hunter 8 Hex: battle master
9 Spirit Hunter 9 Teamwork Feat: Shake it off
10 Spirit Hunter 10 Hex: intimidating display (for shatter defenses)
11 Spirit Hunter 11 Dodge
12 Spirit Hunter 12 Hex: Aura of Purity (Could be swapped for Extend Metamagic but took since Life Bubble was nerfed)
13 Spirit Hunter 13 Shatter Defences
14 Spirit Hunter 14 Improved Initiative
15 Spirit Hunter 15
16 Spirit Hunter 16 Hex: Metamagic Heighten (So you can fill your useless slots with useful things - Skeletons for days, or just another Frightful Aspect.)
17 Spirit Hunter 17 Shield Focus (buyers choice really)
18 Spirit Hunter 18 Hex: Air Barrier
19 Fighter 1 Lightning Reflexes, Missile Shield
20 Fighter 2 Combat Expertise
Mythics
1 Abundant Casting
2 Sorcerous Reflex
3 Improved Abundant Casting
4 Weapon Focus (mythic): rapier
5 Elemental Barrage
6 Second Spirit: Wind
7 Greater Abundant Casting
8 Improved Initiative (mythic)
9 Rupture Restraints (This might be a good place to take Ever Ready)
10 Flawless Attacks (or anything else useful)
Equipment
Head: Circlets, or maybe something else like the initiative helmet, working up to Mental Perfection +6
Amulet: Whatever is good, moving to something like Half of a Pair with MC or Amulet of Deep Roots for Example
Glasses: Rascals Goggles (+10 Competence to Perception and Trickery)
Armor: High Max dex chainshirts -> Air Barrier + Impending Eclipse Haramaki (Elemental Damage Immunity for first 3 rounds of combat)
Shirt: Anything available e.g. Alchemist's Shirt
Cloak: Call to Violence +4 (+2AB+2Damage to Raging allies in 30-feet aura)
Belt: Pristine Mind +4 (Auto-confirms crits)
Ring 1: Icy Protector
Ring 2: Ring of Evasion (100% essential for zero damage on reflex save)
Gloves: Anything interesting -> Star Embroidered Gloves (SR30, +2 luck to saves)
Boots: Spirit Trackers (+4 uses of Spirit Weapon per day)
Bracers: Anything good, Bracers of Rough landing are surprisingly useful (+2 competence to AC, AB and Damage against flying enemies)
Weapons:
All the various rapiers up to Translucent Needle of Astonishment +5 (An absurd on first hit: Paralyse on fail save, Auto stagger for 1 round otherwise)
Shield:
Mediocre Bucklers until Level 19 then switch to Large Shield e.g. Assertion of Dominance (A ridiculous Piercing/Slashing Immunity at full health, just keep false life, Greater heroism etc buffer up for permanent immunities - immune to arrows is pretty powerful in Threshold!) Damage Reduction is small (around 3 points/hit if Frightful Aspected as you should be)
Belt: Maximise Rods for Summons, Extend Rods for Buffs
Last edited:
alice_ashpool
Habitué
- Messages
- 572
An correction to the above - you probably only want 1 level of fighter if you want +2AC from Air Barrier (12 vs 10), it scales at levels 7, 11, 15, 19. Does that reduce AB by 1, idk? Too many variables.
alice_ashpool
Habitué
- Messages
- 572
DLC 3 is out. Compulsory Last Azlanti in the stand-alone mode
Urdnot_Wrex
Habitué
- Messages
- 608
Looks like something for our resident pirates?
alice_ashpool
Habitué
- Messages
- 572
Tried playing on core with a strict No Magic restriction.
Slayer
Tower Shield Specialist
Master-of-all
Not terrible considering I brought 0 healing potions or any other means to heal... whoops
Slayer
Tower Shield Specialist
Master-of-all
Not terrible considering I brought 0 healing potions or any other means to heal... whoops
alice_ashpool
Habitué
- Messages
- 572
Managed to crack the first island chain.
Squads all ready for the 2nd chain. Left to right: Slayer (Longbow), Eldritch Scoundrel + Monk (Dueling Sword), Freebooter (Glaive), Oracle (Longsword + shield), Spirit Hunter (Longbow):
Squads all ready for the 2nd chain. Left to right: Slayer (Longbow), Eldritch Scoundrel + Monk (Dueling Sword), Freebooter (Glaive), Oracle (Longsword + shield), Spirit Hunter (Longbow):
Black Elk
Habitué
- Messages
- 513
Cool thread! I think Baldur's Gate 1/ToSC was probably the only game I ever actually attempted to do a legit ironman on a single save perma death, but that was only after I had finished the game already several times and knew all the inns and outs hehe. BG1 at the time was also one of the first games where constant saving after practically every encounter was sort of drilled into me, since many of the games I played before that were more of the checkpoint style RPGs. In BG1 it was like 'slam that q key!!!' pretty much the entire time or regret not living to regret it lol. BG1 was almost like Super Mario Bros too, with a couple clutch warp points that really made the whole Ironman concept seem a lot more achievable there, at least once you knew the meta on it. Even if there weren't achievements in steam or anything really way back when hehe.
The big leg up for the quick rush in BG1 that I recall was Korax good dog, where you could basically basilisk your way to lvl 5 without having to do all that much - except for watch the clock I guess and trying to get the drop on as many basilisks as possible before Korax turned hostile or Gnolls crashed the party lol. I don't think I even knew about that trick until playing through the game like half a dozen times. It was fun in that you could hop scotch the world map avoiding most encounters except for the ones you knew you could totally nail, blowing past all the traps (since you already knew where they were like muscle memory) and stacking the enchanted gear and potions and whatnot. Korax himself was a bit gimmicky, but once you have the cushion of a couple dozen hitpoints it's just a lot easier to stay alive. And there are plenty of other mini exploits with kiting or edge bombing that aren't quite as pronounced if the Korax exploit was too much. Another was just to recruit into the party early and level together, or just juice the protagonist so they scale first and have everyone else do the hurry up. I think the only companion NPC in BG1EE who won't boost up beyond lvl2 is Imoen right? Though you could probably just immediately run away from her to area transition or something lol. I can't remember if that stuff is gated by chapter or Charname's XP, but either way there were plenty of other Characters who could leap frog pretty quick style. Items like the wand of paralysis can make a lot of the set piece encounters pretty breezy. It made it possible to get to the titular city pretty fast, and then to do a lot of the side content in later chapters where it felt pretty thematic, especially after the Candlekeep return. I think that's the most entertaining and plot sensible time to go off the beaten path and save/lay waste to the country side, depending on the character hehe.
BG1 is also the only game where a Solo ironman had some appeal for me. In many ways it's basically the same, just with fewer variables and a bit easier as some kind of hybrid fighter/caster or scout type. The challenge with BG1 solo was that you'd probably need some summons to handle a couple of the larger fights towards the end, especially with a lot of enemy spellcasters and such, but then there are some items for that too. For me just keeping Charname alive felt like an accomplishment, but for the completionism bent, or flavor restrictions like trying to do all that stuff without prebuffing and going into each encounter as if blind, could add to the challenge, though I found that kinda harder to stick with myself. BG1 was also cool in that it allowed you to import Character, which I think made the whole concept perhaps more accessible there. It's a testament to the charm of the game and the gameplay that it's still pretty fun to replay even after two decades.
Curious, since BG and really most RPGs that tried to follow after, are kinda built around the reload metagame (meaning that you're basically supposed to die a lot, and replay an encounter many times, if it's a good one) that they haven't done more with the D&D Groundhog Day concept. You know, where an element of that is sort of built into the plot itself. Planescape played with a similar idea in terms of character death, but I think they could probably do something with a time travel artifact maybe or a witches' curse, where the reload aspect was less meta and more stitched into the fabric of the actual Campaign. In my head, Ironman Charname was basically like a Forgotten Realms Bill Murray, on like day 3,000 lol.
The big leg up for the quick rush in BG1 that I recall was Korax good dog, where you could basically basilisk your way to lvl 5 without having to do all that much - except for watch the clock I guess and trying to get the drop on as many basilisks as possible before Korax turned hostile or Gnolls crashed the party lol. I don't think I even knew about that trick until playing through the game like half a dozen times. It was fun in that you could hop scotch the world map avoiding most encounters except for the ones you knew you could totally nail, blowing past all the traps (since you already knew where they were like muscle memory) and stacking the enchanted gear and potions and whatnot. Korax himself was a bit gimmicky, but once you have the cushion of a couple dozen hitpoints it's just a lot easier to stay alive. And there are plenty of other mini exploits with kiting or edge bombing that aren't quite as pronounced if the Korax exploit was too much. Another was just to recruit into the party early and level together, or just juice the protagonist so they scale first and have everyone else do the hurry up. I think the only companion NPC in BG1EE who won't boost up beyond lvl2 is Imoen right? Though you could probably just immediately run away from her to area transition or something lol. I can't remember if that stuff is gated by chapter or Charname's XP, but either way there were plenty of other Characters who could leap frog pretty quick style. Items like the wand of paralysis can make a lot of the set piece encounters pretty breezy. It made it possible to get to the titular city pretty fast, and then to do a lot of the side content in later chapters where it felt pretty thematic, especially after the Candlekeep return. I think that's the most entertaining and plot sensible time to go off the beaten path and save/lay waste to the country side, depending on the character hehe.
BG1 is also the only game where a Solo ironman had some appeal for me. In many ways it's basically the same, just with fewer variables and a bit easier as some kind of hybrid fighter/caster or scout type. The challenge with BG1 solo was that you'd probably need some summons to handle a couple of the larger fights towards the end, especially with a lot of enemy spellcasters and such, but then there are some items for that too. For me just keeping Charname alive felt like an accomplishment, but for the completionism bent, or flavor restrictions like trying to do all that stuff without prebuffing and going into each encounter as if blind, could add to the challenge, though I found that kinda harder to stick with myself. BG1 was also cool in that it allowed you to import Character, which I think made the whole concept perhaps more accessible there. It's a testament to the charm of the game and the gameplay that it's still pretty fun to replay even after two decades.
Curious, since BG and really most RPGs that tried to follow after, are kinda built around the reload metagame (meaning that you're basically supposed to die a lot, and replay an encounter many times, if it's a good one) that they haven't done more with the D&D Groundhog Day concept. You know, where an element of that is sort of built into the plot itself. Planescape played with a similar idea in terms of character death, but I think they could probably do something with a time travel artifact maybe or a witches' curse, where the reload aspect was less meta and more stitched into the fabric of the actual Campaign. In my head, Ironman Charname was basically like a Forgotten Realms Bill Murray, on like day 3,000 lol.
Last edited:
alice_ashpool
Habitué
- Messages
- 572
The travails were exceptionally hard, but we made it past the third island chain. Here's the final boss fight.
Final party member added is a Diviner Wizard.
Absolute props to the island with the headwind on which meant I aged 1 year for every round of combat; and after 20 rounds of combat you are perma-staggered. Wow. My poor oracle couldn't hack the speed we had to run at and got Brimorak'd. And also the Nabasu(s) when I didn't have any means of Anti-level drain!
Wow. Tough.
Final party member added is a Diviner Wizard.
Absolute props to the island with the headwind on which meant I aged 1 year for every round of combat; and after 20 rounds of combat you are perma-staggered. Wow. My poor oracle couldn't hack the speed we had to run at and got Brimorak'd. And also the Nabasu(s) when I didn't have any means of Anti-level drain!
Wow. Tough.
alice_ashpool
Habitué
- Messages
- 572
Thats a win folks
