What is an indie game for you?

[m7600]

I don't think that a small team size is enough. It's a necessary condition, but not a sufficient one. The lack of corporate ties is, I think, just as important. Recall DnD Beyond's 10 minute introductory adventure. That game was probably made by a much smaller team than Larian, or the team that made Alan Wake 2. It was probably made by two or three people at most. And with a far smaller budget, I would imagine. Still, that introductory adventure is not an indie game. Not by a long shot. The reason is that it was made by Wizards of the Coast, a big corporation. It doesn't matter how small the team is or how little money they spent on it. As long as it was produced by a big corporation, it cannot be an independent game, by definition.

The real question is if Larian and Remedy Entertainment are big corporations or not. I would say no, they aren't. Not yet, at least. Are they indie studios? Not quite. They're in a gray area. To use an analogy, Warcraft 1 was an indie game when it was released, because Blizzard Entertainment was arguably an indie studio at the time. Warcraft 3 is definitely not an indie game, because by that time Blizzard was a big corporation. Warcraft 2, by contrast, was in a grayish area. Blizzard was no longer indie at that time, but it hadn't become a big corporation yet. Larian and Remedy Entertainment are in the same gray area that Blizzard was when they published Warcraft 2.

Or at least that's my take on it, for now. I might change my mind, though.

EDIT: I forgot to mention Owlcat. I don't think they're an indie studio, but they're not a big corporation either. They're in the same gray area that Larian and Remedy Entertainment are.

 

[Antimatter]

Turns out, I didn't ask the question in the OP without a reason...

What Is Going On With Indies At The Game Awards?

Dave the Diver is nominated for Best Independent Game (and Baldur's Gate 3 isn't) as The Game Awards' definition of 'indie' gets confusing

www.thegamer.com

Seems like (and it's great) we all here are more reasonable than the jury members for the Game Awards.

 

[m7600]

This part is mind-boggling:

"Various members of the jury that nominated Dave the Diver either didn’t know it was published by a huge corp like Nexon, or didn’t care."

It's one thing to believe that Dave the Diver is an indie game. I think it's a mistaken opinion, but at least it's an opinion. It's an entirely different thing to be a jury and not know that Dave the Diver was published by Nexon, or even worse, to just not care. Why would you even be a member of the jury in those cases?

 

[Antimatter]

Yeah, especially when the jury consists of more than 100 highly professional outlets...

Voting Jury | The Game Awards

Meet the distinguished voting jury for The Game Awards

thegameawards.com

 

[Antimatter]

Keighley weighs in on debate over Dave the Diver qualifying for Best Indie Game | VGC

It’s been nominated at The Game Awards, despite being funded by a billion-dollar publisher…

www.videogameschronicle.com

An opinion from Keighley himself. Very questionable.

 

[m7600]

Keighley's reasoning is fallacious. Specifically, he's advancing an appeal to authority. Yes, the jury has to pick which games should be considered as independent. But this doesn't entail that the definition of an indie game depends on that decision.

 

[Antimatter]

I mean, I'm not a fan of him, but what he's doing matters a lot for the whole industry. It's like following news about politics when you don't like what is going on, you still follow because you need to know, and you need to react. And preferably discuss with your peers so that you all collectively could resist the obvious dumbing down.

I see a lot of resistance and understanding from people in the industry. So most likely mistakes like this won't happen again, or at least, won't happen that frequently.

The discourse helps to inform people and make them understand better what independent games are.

 

[Antimatter]

Aaaaaand... 2 years later, the situation repeats itself. These are the nominations for this year's Indie GOTY:



And here are a few explanations why Expedition 33 shouldn't have been nominated as an indie game:

The big Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 interview: Sandfall and Kepler on team size, the return of AA games, and what's next

The success of Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 – which sold 2 million copies within 12 days of launch – has meant all eyes …

www.gamesindustry.biz

https://infinitestart.com/2025/05/clair-obscur-is-not-really-an-indie/

Sandfall Interactive was founded in 2020. The CEO of the company, Guillaume Broche, is the son of a powerful French corporate who owns 4 companies. These companies turn millions, which then go back to make them more cash in the long run. MBO+Investments, SCI MAGAR Real Estate, SC BROCHE and MYRTE INVEST are the companies owned by the Broche family. This puts them in a whole different league that barely compares to even a double A studio like Larian, breaking the illusion of this being an underdog production.