Pathfinder: Kingmaker and Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous General Discussion, Playthroughs and Minimal/No Reload Thread

[alice_ashpool]

I can also say that I found the dungeon layout of the Dwarven Ruins disappointing: so many rooms are unavailable without keys (and you keep finding these keys but can't open even the first door - as you need to defeat Hargulka in order to that). A puzzle that can be solved if you change levels of the dungeon (and you need to do that quite a few times, all with long area loading processes). So many perception check spots which you can miss if your perception character doesn't come close enough (for example, due to their placement in the 6-members party) even while you THINK you have explored this spot. A bit of an ugh! dungeon for me, really.

I can sympethise with this. These days I compare every dungeon to what i consider an oppressive masterpiece of dungeon making and tonal shifts: Drezen.

A thought I had was that a lot of the issues with Owlcats dungeons in general could be ameliorated if they had more enemy barks to make packs a bit different.

Anyway, did you manage the fortress in one rest?

 

[m7600]

One thing I've noticed is that for some reason, Harrim can only memorize Horrid Wilting as a domain spell. He can't use regular spell slots for it, and he can't cast it from a scroll. I'm wondering if this is a bug. I searched it on Google but found no mentions of it.

 

[mlnevese]

A very common response when you get that far into the game!

Quite natural on any game as huge as both Pathfinders...

 

[Antimatter]

Anyway, did you manage the fortress in one rest?

I tried to. We managed to clear the trolls outside and inside in one go (~15 minutes), then we rested before initiating a dialogue with Hargulka.

One thing I've noticed is that for some reason, Harrim can only memorize Horrid Wilting as a domain spell. He can't use regular spell slots for it, and he can't cast it from a scroll.

If a domain spell is not a normal cleric spell you can only use it in the domain slot. Horrid Wilting is a Wizard/Sorcerer spell, not a cleric spell. This is why you can only put it in the domain slot (and can't cast from a scroll, as it's a wizard scroll).

Bronn The Thundercaller. Update 9.

Valerie defeated Fredero Sinnet without any reloads in one of the most boring fights ever. I counted - the combat lasted for 20 real minutes, with multiple misses from both sides and many, MANY healings (from both sides). What helped was Valerie using wands (e.g. of Burning Hands). They at least hit reliably.

Spoiler

We reached lvl 9, and it opened up many more possibilities: lvl 4 spells for Octavia, lvl 5 spells for Harrim, Bronn got the Inspire Greatness song. This is such a great option - it improves to-hit chances and provides extra HPs for the whole party!

Bronn completed solo adventures, meeting and fleeing from the Guardian of the Bloom's ambush, and completing the Sorrowflow with Kalikke. For the ambush, Bronn only had to cast 1 invisibility spell and then manoeuvre between different traps and enemies to safely leave the area.

Spoiler

The party finished exploring the Nalmarches fully with 71 days left until the next Baldhill attack. This allowed us to focus on kingdom events in the subsequent months. This time was enough for: adding 2 new regions to the barony, building 2 villages, completing some quests for the artisans there, and doing all the kingdom tasks the game gave at this point. The last 7 days were spent on upgrading the capital, called Iron Throne, to a town. After that, the Baldhill attack happened.

I can conclude that pushing quests and area exploration early and postponing the kingdom stuff until this stage was a correct decision. It allowed us to quickly raise party members' experience so we no longer had to rest often and visit the capital often. It saved a ton of time in logistics and also generated enough money to invest in the kingdom. I can definitely recommend playing this was as I literally squeezed all kingdom tasks available at that point just in time for new quests (and the further kingdom development can't happen until we complete these story quests).

 

[Antimatter]

Quite natural on any game so huge as both Pathfinders...

Well, I would say that Sounds of a Thousand Screams is the worst part of Pathfinder: Kingmaker. I'll get to it later with Bronn, but there are so many design flaws there that they quickly kill any fun and enthusiasm of playing the game, including:

- killing 1 or 2 party members permanently and irreversibly, just before the final stage of the game, just before the main fights;
- making you spend hours and hours fighting the same enemies, again and again;
- making these enemies resistant to nearly all spells you have;
- giving these enemies the most frustrating and difficult to handle abilities;
- again, making you do that content without 1 or 2 party members you've relied on during the whole game;
- not actually FINISHING the game there and making the player go for another sequence of events even while it felt like the ultimate stage already;
- putting puzzles and riddles into the final stage where it all has to be about killing the main villain;
- using metagaming to carefully pick your way through that area if you didn't do "the right" choices before if you don't want to lose on content.

It feels a bit like a slog compared to the other chapters. Maybe it's just me, I just want to finish this damn thing, lol.

Yep, this is exactly how I felt there when I first played.

 

[alice_ashpool]

Count me down as a rare HatEoT fan.

For the Valerie duel, I have a video up somewhere of winning it reliably on challenging without anything more than pre-cast buffs. Only takes a minute or so.

 

[m7600]

Is there a reliable way to delay going to the HatEoT just so that I can finish the side quests in Sound of a Thousand Screams? I mean, my kingdom is getting crushed bit by bit, every day, thanks to Nyrissa's fey events. I feel like I should rush to the portal and enter HatoEoT, but if I do that, I'll botch several quests. And if I don't do that, my kingdom gets -1 on a lot of stuff every day that passes. I suppose I could try to soak up all those -1, since my kingdom stats are relatively high (except for Espionage).

 

[Antimatter]

Is there a reliable way to delay going to the HatEoT just so that I can finish the side quests in Sound of a Thousand Screams? I mean, my kingdom is getting crushed bit by bit, every day, thanks to Nyrissa's fey events. I feel like I should rush to the portal and enter HatoEoT, but if I do that, I'll botch several quests. And if I don't do that, my kingdom gets -1 on a lot of stuff every day that passes. I suppose I could try to soak up all those -1, since my kingdom stats are relatively high (except for Espionage).

As I understand, you haven't completed the HatEoT yet, have you? Will it be a spoiler if I tell you your kingdom stats won't matter once you finish that dungeon?

I, too, had to sacrifice quests in order to get to the HatEoT, because of an awkward timing of fey events and the need to go to the portal. It won't matter in the end.

 

[m7600]

As I understand, you haven't completed the HatEoT yet, have you? Will it be a spoiler if I tell you your kingdom stats won't matter once you finish that dungeon?

I, too, had to sacrifice quests in order to get to the HatEoT, because of an awkward timing of fey events and the need to go to the portal. It won't matter in the end.

Interesting. Then I guess I'll have to stock up on camping supplies, scrolls and potions, and enter the portal.

 

[m7600]

So, I was looking at some mods for Pathfinder: Kingmaker over at Nexusmods, and I learned that originally, turn-based combat was a mod. Owlcat took notice, contacted the modder, and they incorporated it into the main game. That's so awesome!

 

[mlnevese]

So, I was looking at some mods for Pathfinder: Kingmaker over at Nexusmods, and I learned that originally, turn-based combat was a mod. Owlcat took notice, contacted the modder, and they incorporated it into the main game. That's so awesome!

The ability to control the crusade from the map screen when your party is traveling also comes from a popular Kingmaker mod that allows you to control the Kingdom from the map. Owlcat does a lot of wrong things such as buggy releases but they clearly listen to their customers...

 

[m7600]

A bit of trivia: Linzi is attracted to other women. This isn't obvious at all, and it's easy to miss, because she doesn't talk about it, and you can't romance her. But there were a few hints here and there. For example, when she talks to Annamede Belavarah, she blushes and can't find the right words to say. However, since Annamede is one of the most talented bards in the world, Linzi's nervousness can be interpreted simply as admiration for one of her idols. That may be the case. Yet, I remember that during a battle against some Nereids, Linzi was affected by Beguiling Aura. This is an ability that Nereids have, and the spell description literally says that it only affects characters that are attracted to women. Valerie and Amiri were unaffected, but Octavia and Linzi were affected by the aura.

 

[alice_ashpool]

A bit of trivia: Linzi is attracted to other women. This isn't obvious at all, and it's easy to miss, because she doesn't talk about it, and you can't romance her. But there were a few hints here and there. For example, when she talks to Annamede Belavarah, she blushes and can't find the right words to say. However, since Annamede is one of the most talented bards in the world, Linzi's nervousness can be interpreted simply as admiration for one of her idols. That may be the case. Yet, I remember that during a battle against some Nereids, Linzi was affected by Beguiling Aura. This is an ability that Nereids have, and the spell description literally says that it only affects characters that are attracted to women. Valerie and Amiri were unaffected, but Octavia and Linzi were affected by the aura.

You can also pick up on it when you read some of Linzi's dialogue regarding Valerie. There might be a few other bits too iirc - like in the journal.

 

[Antimatter]

I agree characters and stories in Pathfinder: Kingmaker are very diverse. I would say there is no extra highlighting or artificial dialogue around inclusive stuff in this game. There is no big fuss about Octavia and Regongar having open relationships. Linzi is not a tropey female character attracted to women. This is especially cool considering the game was developed in the country where any LGBTQ+ topic is outlawed.

Speaking about the Beguiling Aura, Bronn has got through a very nasty encounter vs Lady of Shallows. Her Beguiling Aura and enchantment spells made it difficult to use Bronn and Octavia in the combat, and those are my arcane casters. What helped here was me using offensive spells vs my own characters (to break Fascinate) and focusing on True Strike by Jaethal. Basically, Jaethal handled damage vs Lady of Shallows alone, with Amiri and Valerie falling victims of her enchantment spells.

Spoiler

 

[Xzarloxara]

Well, I would say that Sounds of a Thousand Screams is the worst part of Pathfinder: Kingmaker. I'll get to it later with Bronn, but there are so many design flaws there that they quickly kill any fun and enthusiasm of playing the game, including:

- killing 1 or 2 party members permanently and irreversibly, just before the final stage of the game, just before the main fights;
- making you spend hours and hours fighting the same enemies, again and again;
- making these enemies resistant to nearly all spells you have;
- giving these enemies the most frustrating and difficult to handle abilities;
- again, making you do that content without 1 or 2 party members you've relied on during the whole game;
- not actually FINISHING the game there and making the player go for another sequence of events even while it felt like the ultimate stage already;
- putting puzzles and riddles into the final stage where it all has to be about killing the main villain;
- using metagaming to carefully pick your way through that area if you didn't do "the right" choices before if you don't want to lose on content.


Yep, this is exactly how I felt there when I first played.

Don't forget that you basically have to explore each area not just once, but twice! That gets old really fast...

 

[m7600]

Well, I finally finished the game. It was a really nice experience, and if I had to rate it, I'd give it a 10 out of 10. There were a few bugs here and there, and a few things that I found questionable, but overall this is a great game.

The ending had many interesting slides, but I'll just post the one about Kanerah and Charname.

 

[Antimatter]

Congratulations, @m7600! 10/10 is very high praise. It's good that you'd given a commercial game a go and found it to be worth it. Before 2016, there was no Owlcat Games. The studio was founded by former members of Nival Interactive, responsible for strategy games like Heroes of Might & Magic 5. Alexander Mishulin (Creative Director on P:K) was that game's creative director, and one of its lead designers (you can see him in the credits from 2006). Now, Owlcat Games are known for the creation of the most successful heir of Infinity Engine-era RPGs. Isn't it like a miracle we could watch with our own eyes? And the best part here is that they haven't finished yet. With each new game, they will get better and better.

While "industry titans" like BioWare experienced all sorts of troubles, new creations by Owlcat Games and Larian are getting more and more popularity, deservedly so. Your example, m7600, is a good illustration of how a player not usually following new shiny games, appreciated some sincere and honest work, done with souls put into it (of course, not without faults and negatives). When I first played P:K, I saw a lot of premise and potential. I'm looking forward to playing their second game to be able to witness the progress and development from P:K.

Bronn The Thundercaller. Update 10.

Some of the areas we discovered after reaching lvl 10 (which happened exactly during the second Baldhill attack - and reaching that level so early in the game felt substantial, especially considering we don't use options to grant XP only to current party members), thanks to higher Perception, provided nice challenges.

"Greater Cyclops" of the 24th level. We could only defeat him thanks to heavy debuffs.

Spoiler

Or the fight vs the Poisonous Primal Hydra and nixies. I can't imagine handling this encounter without multiple Dazzling Displays.

Spoiler

What could end the run was an ambush, though, not a pre-set encounter. Two Bloody Bones Beasts. Bloody bones, that is an appropriate curse phrase here. 40+ damage, high APR, rage, undead. We barely survived, using all our damage wands and whatnot. The party was without many of its spells after that Hydra encounter, which made things much more different. I don't think any reliable strategy existed to survive in this fight, we just got bloody lucky.

Spoiler

After handling these undead beasts, we were much more cautious when approaching a Ferocious Devourer. This creature drained a few levels from Valerie but thankfully our party had spells prepared to restore levels and make Valerie immune to subsequent level drain attacks.

Spoiler

Now, there is one spell I personally like the most in the whole game - Baleful Polymorph. It always brings me good memories of turning Firkraag into a squirrel in BG2 under SCS with all possible buffs for enemies. So now when Octavia has access to lvl 5 spells (and later we'll heighten this spell), we try to Polymorph a dangerous enemy whenever we get a chance. What can be better than stunning a Linnorm? Turning a ferocious creature into a cute dog. Permanently.

Spoiler

 

[mlnevese]

I finally tried the WoTR 2.0h beta and it's totally worth it. The performance enhancement alone makes it feel like a new game sometimes.

 

[mlnevese]

You reach level 20 so early in WoTR Chapter 5... I really don't like the fact I'll go most of Chapter 5/6 with only my two last Mythic levels to gain...

 

[alice_ashpool]

DLC/expansion is out in a couple of days. Hype.