Pathfinder: Kingmaker and Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous General Discussion, Playthroughs and Minimal/No Reload Thread

[alice_ashpool]

Some changes have happened since I completed the Core Ironman run; but I have come up with a variant even better and more RP-friendly:

Instinctual Warrior 4, Eldritch Scoundrel 16.
You get Focused Rage which gives +2 to AB and +2 Wis; along with bonus HP. Rage synergises with Demonic Rage.
You can take a Rage power at level 4 of Instinctual Warrior.
+10 to base move speed - very useful as you want to be in combat first.
Cunning Elusion at level 2 for wis to AC
Uncanny Dodge at level 2 (ES loses this so it works out nicely so we don't have to take it as a precious rogue talent)
You can start as Chaotic Evil so you can take Rovagug as deity for story synergy with Demon path. Plus you feel less whiplash as you don't need to start as lawful.

Negative is no Monk robe, but monk robes are so restrictive in game anyway that its not a huge loss. You could also go IW 2, ES 16, then

Apart from that it basically plays the same - you miss out on one feat which sets your tempo back a bit, but changes Rogue mean you can no-longer take Slippery Mind as a non-advanced talent so you have a free rogue talent to take Improved Unarmed Attack.. Or else you can just deal with poor persuasion if you want to take Martial rather than Acolyte background for IUA. Buyer's pick.

 

[alice_ashpool]

Two thoughts based on playing characters in Hard difficulty Last Azlanti

1. Daeran - every "build" I see posted is trying to make him into something he isn't - and I can understand that since meta is 'healing in combat is a waste of action economy' - but daeran is the healer. It would be almost impossible to build a better healer as the MC. A life mystery oracle with 20 charisma who comes with the channel revelation, extra channel and selective channel. If ever there was going to be a character which would break the mould for healing in combat its daeran, welp better make him a rapier wielding dude.

The issue is really feat tempo - in order to get good at anything he is not good at you have to invest multiple feats - which requires multiple levels to do so: he makes a passable blaster or enchanter on lower difficulties with another 4 feats minimum + mythics. And that's without Shake it off, so 5 feats needed really 0- ad by that point most of the game is gone XD.

Now, hows this for Daeran:
5: Extra Channel
7: Extra Channel
9: Shake it off
11: Heighten Spell
13: Extra Channel
15: Martial Weapon Proficiency (So we can sit around holding Evil Radiance for SR Aura and spam Dispel Magic along with The Undying Love of the Hopebringer shield for is Aura - true Daeran Aura-bot)
17: Swift Metamagic
19: Whatever

If you want you can drop 2 Channels for SF Evocation purely for Archon's Aura, but you can just heighten it to level 9 and reap some of the benefits without needing 2 feats and 1 mythic.

2. Camellia - Every builds says take fencing grace at level 5 so she can do some damage. The more advanced ones say 2 levels instinctual warrior for wisdom to AC. I say no! accept her piddly strength and make her big.

And take 2 levels of Fighter instead and slap a Heavy shield on her. Yes, her strength will not match her dex, but Instinctual warrior can't use a shield so the wis-> ac benefits are actually quite minimal unless you are finding something fancy (its 10AC compared to 7AC by endgame unless I have missed something major). Take advantage of all those size increasing spells on her and there's a whole other world. This also saves you 1 feat and she can use the shield which grants total immunity to slashing and piercing damage if she is at or above full health for the last part of the game which is hilarious since she can get about 100 temp HP and then daeran can keep anyone at full heath for 30-40 rounds with his overheal ability.

3: WF: Rapier (more AB = more crits)
5: Dodge
7: Outflank
9: Shake it off
11: Improved unarmed
13: Crane Style
15: Shield Focus
17: Iron Will
19: fighter stuff (3 feats for fun)

Edit: sorry with Cam you only want 1 level of any dip so you get max air barrier. Then you shapechange her into Dragonkind III... yesssss.

 

[alice_ashpool]

Picked up some rare achievements today.

 

[alice_ashpool]

Been playing a Shifter. They are a very good (OP) class. Base dex shifter gets great AC from the off. You could go Lich for a full spell book meaning Shield and Mage Armor and I think you could get some silly numbers, but I'm going to run Demon as usual - still gets mirror Image but you would need to rely on Potions of Mage Armor to get that Archmage Armor goodness.

2. Camellia - Every builds says take fencing grace at level 5 so she can do some damage. The more advanced ones say 2 levels instinctual warrior for wisdom to AC. I say no! accept her piddly strength and make her big.

And take 2 levels of Fighter instead and slap a Heavy shield on her. Yes, her strength will not match her dex, but Instinctual warrior can't use a shield so the wis-> ac benefits are actually quite minimal unless you are finding something fancy (its 10AC compared to 7AC by endgame unless I have missed something major). Take advantage of all those size increasing spells on her and there's a whole other world. This also saves you 1 feat and she can use the shield which grants total immunity to slashing and piercing damage if she is at or above full health for the last part of the game which is hilarious since she can get about 100 temp HP and then daeran can keep anyone at full heath for 30-40 rounds with his overheal ability.

3: WF: Rapier (more AB = more crits)
5: Dodge
7: Outflank
9: Shake it off
11: Improved unarmed
13: Crane Style
15: Shield Focus
17: Iron Will
19: fighter stuff (3 feats for fun)

Edit: sorry with Cam you only want 1 level of any dip so you get max air barrier. Then you shapechange her into Dragonkind III... yesssss.

So the 1 level of fighter can be taken at Level 9 for Cam. This means Large Shields and even Tower shields. She can then use Divine Protector for DR 5/magic which has high utility in the mid game. I think it is just off-meta but still very nice.

 

[alice_ashpool]

So a little bit of criticism of the shifter: they have a big size ring, which makes shifter tanking slightly harder since even enlarged non-reach party members cannot reach over the shifter. That means Cam and MC are side by side. Of course if you give Cam a shield then on Core her AC is fine for a 1 in 20 chance of being hit, but it means being careful against enemies with sky high ABs.

For Cam you can either go Fighter (for Tower Shield Proficiency), or Cavalier Disciple of the Pike for Challenge and a dodge bonus to AC against larger enemies (since they get a bonus teamwork feat at level 1 you can take Shake it Off and use this feat productively.)

My next plan is Wenduag tank with BIG HITS MC (probably dual wield longswords for jokes). Wendy with Tower Shield, single throwing Axe, and point blank master + a bunch of AC feats. Stupid but it will work. Fighter really is the most OP class. I remember reading all sorts of "debate" about what makes the best archer, but hands down it is the Fighter (you can make an argument for Mutation Warrior subclass but loss of Armor Focus really hurts since archers are about rapid re-positioning and walking at a snails pace hurts: far outstrips the Slayer in AB stacking, and all those +1 and +2 to damage really add up. Slayer works better early game but fighter knocks them back hands down from mid onwards. It's sad to see how badly Wendy with a bow outstrips Aru with a bow.

Also, really feel that Wendy does (moderately) better with a bow rather than dual axes, purely because of the 50' range compared to the 30' with throwing axes, and many shot giving more attacks at max AB than the 2-Axe meta. So long as you can hand over Finnean to Wenduag then Aru can use Killing Pace, which makes up for her sub-par damage but not AB, and all is right in the world.

 

[mlnevese]

Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition - New archetypes in The Lord of Nothing DLC. Part 1 - Steam News

Hello, Pathfinders! Today we want to tell you about the new archetypes in The Lord of Nothing DLC. There is a great deal of information, so we’ve divided this article into two parts. The second part will be out soon, but in the meantime, sit back and enjoy the details, because we’ve added 15 new...

store.steampowered.com

 

[alice_ashpool]

I always like new archetypes. Pretty hype for some OP junk to slip through the testing

 

[alice_ashpool]

I think credit where credit is due though, Owlcat have consistently supported WotR for years now, with both their work debugging an absurdly complex system and with their new DLCs (All of which I like though none of which I think were really worth the price, though to me they were) across a variety of themes, and now a whole new list of archetypes, and a follow up to their best DLC, the Kenabres one.

Plus they also have Rogue Trader out soon so they have obviously had a pretty competent B team of some sort plugging away at WotR for a long time. They get a lot of flack for issues but grognards are traditionally impossible to satisfy, so in this world of LoTR: Gollum I am well pleased.

 

[Antimatter]

I'd agree about support and patches, commendable. Can you explain a bit about DLC for WotR? I haven't touched the game since I left it (sorry) and have no idea how DLC for this game works. I remember I was disappointed by P:K DLC. Why is the Kenabres one good?

 

[alice_ashpool]

DLCs are, in order of release:

Inevitable Excess - A rather rushed post campaign micro-campaign which I enjoyed. A really difficulty challenge for a Lvl20/Mythic10 party with an interesting story even if it felt a bit hollow. The worst of the bunch and poorly received, but then who gets to the end of WotR anyway

Through the Ashes (The "kenabres one") - A stand alone micro-campaign modelled on being just a regular shmuck caught in kenabres during the invasion. It goes for a survival vibe which it nails for a top down cRPG. Challenging and a bit buggy at times. Really good fun and my favourite. The next DLC is a continuation/sequel. Equivilent to Varnhold's Lot in Kingmaker but better imo.

Treasures of the Midnight Isles - A rogue-like "endless" dungeon. Requires an inordinate amount of playing to get through. Quite fun to play and test different "builds". Integrated into the main campaign by popular complaining (or else because Beneath the Stolen Lands was in Kingmaker) where it is bad because it distorts the XP curve wildly, and feels like a grind (it is).

The Last of the Sarkorians - New manly-man's good alignment companion to pacify the haters, new areas and quests associated with this companion with some fun battles, and a whole new class: Shifter. with a full suite of archetypes. Its great but it again distorts the XP curve but not to the extent TotMI does. Equivalent to the Wildcards in Kingmaker

"The New One" - Sequel to Through the Ashes (so stand alone) + all those new archetypes for the main game

Another as yet un-named DLC which promises post campaign content, for a total of 6 DLCs.

Generally if you found the Kingmaker DLC lacking then you will probably find WotR stuff more of the same, but I like it because its more of what I love. DLC in these things is always going to mostly suck in these games imo, unless you're a super-fan.

 

[Cahir]

DLCs are, in order or release:

Inevitable Excess - A rather rushed post campaign micro-campaign which I enjoyed. A really difficulty challenge for a Lvl20/Mythic10 party with an interesting story even if it felt a bit hollow. The worst of the bunch and poorly received, but then who gets to the end of WotR anyway

Through the Ashes (The "kenabres one") - A stand alone micro-campaign modelled on being just a regular shmuck caught in kenabres during the invasion. It goes for a survival vibe which it nails for a top down cRPG. Challenging and a bit buggy at times. Really good fun and my favourite. The next DLC is a continuation/sequel. Equivilent to Varnhold's Lot in Kingmaker but better imo.

Treasures of the Midnight Isles - A rogue-like "endless" dungeon. Requires an inordinate amount of playing to get through. Quite fun to play and test different "builds". Integrated into the main campaign by popular complaining (or else because Beneath the Stolen Lands was in Kingmaker) where it is bad because it distorts the XP curve wildly, and feels like a grind (it is).

The Last of the Sarkorians - New manly-man's good alignment companion to pacify the haters, new areas and quests associated with this companion with some fun battles, and a whole new class: Shifter. with a full suite of archetypes. Its great but it again distorts the XP curve but not to the extent TotMI does. Equivalent to the Wildcards in Kingmaker

"The New One" - Sequel to Through the Ashes (so stand alone) + all those new archetypes for the main game

Another as yet un-named DLC which promises post campaign content, for a total of 6 DLCs.

Generally if you found the Kingmaker DLC lacking then you will probably find WotR stuff more of the same, but I like it because its more of what I love. DLC in these things is always going to mostly suck in these games imo, unless you're a super-fan.

So, there is no DLC that expands the original story in any way? All of them are stand alone stories?

 

[alice_ashpool]

Inevitable Excess, Midnight Isles and Last Sarkorians all add to the main campaign

 

[mlnevese]

I hope Rogue Traders will receive such a long-term support. I'm currently playing with the shifter NPC in my party and he's still finding it hard to believe he lost over 100 years and he doesn't remember how he was trapped the way he was... seems it will be interesting

 

[Skatan]

After a couple of tries to get hooked on PF WOTR I now finally have a game and a character running. Finished Drezen the other day and realized the game so far is kinda enjoyable after all. Everything after the tavern attack basically.

Playing on a kinda normal/daring mixed difficulty setting where I mix challenge with convenience. All damage and stats on enemies is set to 1, but I had fallen heroes rise after combat to save some time and remove the need for reloads. But after the ball got rollin' and I started hoarding animal companions, no one has fallen in quite some time. Those early levels were pretty touch, but for now we roll over everything, me and my party of 10.

No respecs so far, but I think I've made some mistakes here and there. Playing a skill monkey buff bard.

 

[mlnevese]

After a couple of tries to get hooked on PF WOTR I now finally have a game and a character running. Finished Drezen the other day and realized the game so far is kinda enjoyable after all. Everything after the tavern attack basically.

Playing on a kinda normal/daring mixed difficulty setting where I mix challenge with convenience. All damage and stats on enemies is set to 1, but I had fallen heroes rise after combat to save some time and remove the need for reloads. But after the ball got rollin' and I started hoarding animal companions, no one has fallen in quite some time. Those early levels were pretty touch, but for now we roll over everything, me and my party of 10.

No respecs so far, but I think I've made some mistakes here and there. Playing a skill monkey buff bard.

If you think you should respec then do it, having fun is the most important in any game. I was playing Wenduag as a Shifter to see how the class works. When I got the shifter NPC ]i just changed her to something else

 

[alice_ashpool]

Holy cow the Feyform Shifter is absurd. Words cannot express. My girl has 5 attacks at level 4, all with sneak attack.

 

[mlnevese]

Holy cow the Feyform Shifter is absurd. Words cannot express. My girl has 5 attacks at level 4, all with sneak attack.

Don't tempt me with restartitis

 

[alice_ashpool]

Did I mention that now I am level 6 I have AC >50, and 5 attacks with around +15 AB on all of them since they're primary, and a magic gore for good measure at +10. This is the class. The class for me.

 

[mlnevese]

Did I mention that now I am level 6 I have AC >50, and 5 attacks with around +15 AB on all of them since they're primary, and a magic gore for good measure at +10. This is the class. The class for me.

Argh! I'm just about to get Drezen and go Mythic 3. You're evil!

 

[alice_ashpool]

Sorry. If it helps I will post some screenshots to make you even more jealous and conflicted.

level 6 bay-be.