Pathfinder: Kingmaker and Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous General Discussion, Playthroughs and Minimal/No Reload Thread

m7600

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616
🎵There once was a barrel,
of the finest cream Stout,
T'was the best beer in the realm,
quite far beyond doubt.🎵

🎵A big stack of scrolls,
that unleash great powers,
Time Stop is quite useful,
when you just need more hours.🎵

🎵As for the speech,
or song, or poem,
just try Planescape already,
you big stubborn Krogan 🎵🍺
 

Urdnot_Wrex

Innkeeper
Staff member
Messages
988
🎵There once was a barrel,
of the finest cream Stout,
T'was the best beer in the realm,
quite far beyond doubt.🎵

🎵A big stack of scrolls,
that unleash great powers,
Time Stop is quite useful,
when you just need more hours.🎵

🎵As for the speech,
or song, or poem,
just try Planescape already,
you big stubborn Krogan 🎵🍺
Incidentally, I installed the game a few days ago and am determined to give it another chance but where would have been the fun in admitting that?
 

m7600

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Messages
616
Introducing Kyra the Tiefling bard. She doesn't look like a Tiefling, but neither does Haer'Dalis.

Screenshot from 2023-11-25 16-00-47.png
 
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56
Joking aside, it's a great game. Much better than Kingmaker, IMO, from a narrative and story point of view, with lots of various gameplay mechanics. Some of those mechanics are great, some less great, but definitely not as annoying as kingdom management in Kingmaker. And the character development is just crazy, even without DLCs and new fancy archetypes. It's simply overwhelming.

Overall, I very much recommend it. Second best crpg I've played over the last few years, right after BG3.
Whether WoTR is much better than Kingmaker or not is pretty much subjective. Personally for me Kingmaker and WoTR are just like BG1/ToSC and BG2 SoA/ToB. The sequels might look a bit more polished and flashy and all that but my heart will always be with the first parts of those sagas. I've never finished Kingmaker (due to a chronic re-startis syndrome, currently running it on Hard difficulty once again) and played early areas of WoTR several times already so to be able to make a comparison. I also don't feel Kingmaker's kingdom management as annoying as checking like zillions of containers with 99.9% trash loot in anticipation to find something useful there...

All in all, my point in all this grumbling is that both Kingmaker and WoTR are worthy to at least try them out and make your own impression.
 

Urdnot_Wrex

Innkeeper
Staff member
Messages
988
All in all, my point in all this grumbling is that both Kingmaker and WoTR are worthy to at least try them out and make your own impression.

Of course.

Thanks for your insight, especially the comparison to BG1/TotSC and BG2/ToB.

I personally like BG2 more than 1 because of the companion interactions and preferring the variety of higher level play, but both parts have their merit.

I also like continuity, and wouldn't want to play a sequel without playing the first part at least partially. I have heard very mixed stuff about Kingmaker but I'm pretty sure I'll start with it, also because I hope it will get me a better feeling for the system, all those skills and spells and the leveling system and prebuffing and all... it's unfamiliar to me, and if the second game indeed turns out to be more to my liking, it would be easier without having to learn the tinkering with the system at the same time.

Also, yes, opinions and recommendations are one thing, personal experience another.
 

Antimatter

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1,205
Just... be careful, ok? Playing both games might mean (easily) 400 hours or more. This is THE way to get burned out on Pathfinder games. One of the factors contributing to me stopping playing WotR is that I had just finished Kingmaker back then, and it was like adding another hundred hours to the hundreds I had put in before.

I know I played Kingmaker first of course and can't imagine a situation differently, but if you're limited on time, think twice, please. WotR vs Kingmaker might be similar to BG2 vs BG1, but eventually, all their game systems improved. It's the evolution of the game developer, and the second game is more evolved (while some players might still prefer Kingmaker, it's totally fine).

But yeah, eventually Kingmaker (even all its 300 hours) felt like a tutorial for WotR, I think the second game is much more difficult and unforgiving. It would be possible to learn the systems just in WotR, but it would require really digging into all the classes, kits, races, feats, what level to pick as what class, what is the party combo, what is the balance, etc etc etc.
 

Urdnot_Wrex

Innkeeper
Staff member
Messages
988
Just... be careful, ok? Playing both games might mean (easily) 400 hours or more. This is THE way to get burned out on Pathfinder games. One of the factors contributing to me stopping playing WotR is that I had just finished Kingmaker back then, and it was like adding another hundred hours to the hundreds I had put in before.

Thank you for the warning.
So if the alternatives are either spending a lot of time learning in Kingmaker to be able to thrive in WotR at the risk of burning out, or reading and looking up an awful lot of stuff, I think I'll pass for now.

Sadly I seem to burn out at or get tired of/overwhelmed by games a lot lately, which is a bit discouraging, so maybe that's the wrong kind of game for me at this point.
 

mlnevese

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581
Thank you for the warning.
So if the alternatives are either spending a lot of time learning in Kingmaker to be able to thrive in WotR at the risk of burning out, or reading and looking up an awful lot of stuff, I think I'll pass for now.

Sadly I seem to burn out at or get tired of/overwhelmed by games a lot lately, which is a bit discouraging, so maybe that's the wrong kind of game for me at this point.
I'd really start with WoTR. It solved a lot of small problems Kingmaker had. Just be warned that most bosses come with a difficulty spike and figuring out how to bypass an enemy resistances and immunities may get complicated. Also puzzles. The game is full of puzzles, to the point I avoid a certain NPC just to avoid all the puzzles... Unfortunately that NPC is also the most powerful spellcasters in the game :)
 

mlnevese

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I really liked the story in Kingmaker. Most RPGs have you fight against undead and/or demons, but Kingmaker's villains are a variation of The Fair Folk trope, which is not as common. That was quite refreshing and original IMO.
Yeap with a completely distinct set of abilities and powers. I just think the difficulty spikes were too big and that game just loved to drain abilities. :)
 

Cahir

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324
Thank you for the warning.
So if the alternatives are either spending a lot of time learning in Kingmaker to be able to thrive in WotR at the risk of burning out, or reading and looking up an awful lot of stuff, I think I'll pass for now.
First of all both stories are independent from each other, so from s story perspective you don't need to play Kingmaker before WoTR. As for the gameplay or character progression, both games are do similar, that you can easily learn to play on WoTR, you don't need to go through Kingmaker to do that.
Whether WoTR is much better than Kingmaker or not is pretty much subjective. Personally for me Kingmaker and WoTR are just like BG1/ToSC and BG2 SoA/ToB. The sequels might look a bit more polished and flashy and all that but my heart will always be with the first parts of those sagas.
I agree that general feeling of both games may gravitate towards BG1 for Kingmaker and BG2 for both, but the key difference that both games are not connected from the story point of view. I agree that my view on both games are subjective, still there are couple of things in Kingmaker that are objectively worse than in WoTR (like assets reuse and dungeons similar to each other). I also prefer when the main villain is presented at the beginning of the game (Irenicus, Sarevok). The convoluted plot in Kingmaker, with its not particularly impressive villain also makes me like the game less than WoTR.
 

alice_ashpool

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Messages
579
Finally got round to putting this SOB in the dirt. Think these screenshots are hard but I did him on unfair straight after.

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Just a normal sylvan trickster 3/Mutation Warrior 3/Paladin 1/Hellknight 1/Scaled Fist 1/Disciple of the Pike 1/Arcane Enforcer 1

Rekarth: Rogue 1/Freebooter 5/Witch 1/Incense Synthesiser 4
Sendri Sorcerer 2/Skald 9
Penta: "Bard" to 11
Combine with a grenadier 11 with fast holy bombs, a max charisma Half-elf Paladin 11 for mark of justice
 

mlnevese

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m7600

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616
So I've been trying to play Wrath of the Righteous, but I just can't get into it. I wanted to play in turn-based mode but it just takes forever with all of the friendly NPC soldiers and crusaders, so for the sake of expediency I have to play RTwP. Not that I dislike RTwP, but if there's an option for turn-based mode, I'd like to use the latter instead of the former. Regardless, the game runs super slow on my specs. Granted, I'm not up to date with that, but I'm not using a typewriter from the 20th century either. I refuse to spend money on the latest hardware just to play games, which is one of the reasons why I'll wait several years before even trying Baldur's Gate 3. As for Wrath of the Righteous, I have to run the graphics on the lowest quality.

Overall, I'm a bit disapointed. Kingmaker was an excellent game, and I think it's better than Wrath of the Righteous in almost every way.
 

alice_ashpool

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579
Playing on low specs is a frustrating and unpleasant experience as everything slows down. As far as npc turns go, if you are not already then hitting space speeds up turns. Other options, RtWP but hold 'V' (hold not press) for slow motion mode. But really the game has so many absurdly long calculations going on under the hood that it seems to tax hardware something awful.

Suggested solution: wait a few years
 

alice_ashpool

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579
Nothing too exciting here, although a large number of fixes for cavalier class which is good.
 

m7600

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616
I decided to give Wrath of the Righteous another chance. I re-rolled Kyra because I decided to be a human instead of a tiefling. The main story about the demon invasion of Kenabres seems kind of trite to me, if I'm being honest. However, I'm enjoying the small side-quests, such as talking with the thieflings (tiefling thiefs), clearing out Horgus Gwerm's mansion, scouting the museum, etc. My companions are OK I guess, they don't have much of a personality, even though they try hard. The only NPC that I like so far, and who I find hilarious, is Daeran. He's not very good in combat but he has the funniest personality.

Screenshot from 2024-02-04 19-20-42.png


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Screenshot from 2024-02-04 19-58-47.png
 
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