Pathfinder: Kingmaker and Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous General Discussion, Playthroughs and Minimal/No Reload Thread

[alice_ashpool]

But perhaps you can see from the direct complaints about HatEoT why Owlcat too the "other route" to end game difficulty in WotR - AC. Which likewise generated complaints.

People say they want enemies to use different tactics against the player - but when they do they don't like it!

 

[Antimatter]

Well, I haven't played WotR until the end yet, so I don't know.

 

[mlnevese]

Well, I haven't played WotR until the end yet, so I don't know.

The end changes a lot depending on the Mythic Path you chose and if you are trying for the secret ending or not...

 

[alice_ashpool]

Final fight stuff. Even demi-gods bow before my fey enchantress, helped along by Jubilost's "idiot bombs"

Spoiler

 

[alice_ashpool]

Why do you stand for this? Why do you submit to the flesh, when death is bred in your bones? Realize the power you might hold? When the world of flesh is beneath you, even creatures mysterious and magical will fall!

Spoiler

 

[alice_ashpool]

Run review:

Somewhere I messed up and didn't get the Nyrissa ending - I seem to have forgotten something important. Apart from that everything went fine.

Fey Bloodline is very powerful - within reason. It will either a) trivialize an encounter or b) be completely useless (looking at you vordakai's tomb). I took 2 high level crucial spells in addition to all the enchantment stuff: Tar pit, which is effectively stinking cloud+ in many situations, and the level 8 divination spell "prediction of failure" which allows you to sicken enemies for 1 round/level with no save. Which is a great single target debuff. There is some considerable "dead time" in an enchanter between getting Waves of Ecstasy, and getting Overwhelming presence - Enchantment is, for much of the time, single target, with some difficult to use AoE, because unlike Illusion, Enchantment has friendly fire on - except for the level 9 spells. All together a good challenge and really good fun.

I like using a school that is a coin toss between game-breakingly powerful or useless.

Feyspeaker - silly fun as an aspect of the wolf tripping magic casting Mirror Imaged Smilodon dropping phantasmal putrefactions. Had a tough time hitting things on challenging because she required a lot of work to "work". Either than or just stood at the back with the offensive Illusions. Druids are silly good anyway so it was fine.
Valerie - stupid powerful on challenging as usual - normal offensive build.
Harrim - Silly powerful because Destruction is OP 200HP bolts from the sky. Gave him Martial weapon proficiency in the end so he could Glaive with incorruptible petal too
Jubilost - Went curse bombs and Grand cognatogen this time for synergies with Enchantment. -6 wisdom with silly high DC is great. Also Echolocation.
Linzi - used her all the way through but deliberately didn't take enchantment spells. She's ok - jack of all trades, master of nothing.
Octavia - standard build goes pew-pew
Amiri - used quite a bit, trick is to give her UMD points so you can self-buff - smacks hard dies easy.
Jaethal - standard trip builds are fun. Fauchard rather than scythe

Didn't really use:
Ekun - standard build, tried not to use him early because he't too god at shooting things in the mid-game
Tristian - rarely used, mostly Flame strike fun.
Twins - High level kineticists are boring imo
Nok-nok - shreds
Regongar - did ES 10/DD 10, but tbh Eldritch Scion 20 is better imo.

 

[Urdnot_Wrex]

Why do you stand for this? Why do you submit to the flesh, when death is bred in your bones? Realize the power you might hold? When the world of flesh is beneath you, even creatures mysterious and magical will fall!

Spoiler

I love the description of Overwhelming Presence. How do you feel when people fall to the ground and bow to you in awe? Imagine it were available for the player... now *that* would be an Omnipresent Authority Figure.
On second thought, it would probably be more creepy than funny though.

 

[alice_ashpool]

I love the description of Overwhelming Presence. How do you feel when people fall to the ground and bow to you in awe? Imagine it were available for the player... now *that* would be an Omnipresent Authority Figure.
On second thought, it would probably be more creepy than funny though.

I tend to think of Enchantment as a the most evil school of magic to pursue. Imagine meeting a wizard who told you their specialty is making other people into obedient puppets. Magic scary.

 

[alice_ashpool]

Snagged all the achievements in the new DLC. Not sure why, but I did. Shame there were no difficulty related ones.

 

[alice_ashpool]

Killed that a**hole Inevitable Darkness on Hard with the default companion builds for Inevitable Excess with a normie TSS Angel. *wipes away sweat with 99 Heal, Mass scrolls*

Spoiler

True nightmare fuel. Not recommended.

The reason for the Death's Door is I was playing earlier in the DLC on Normal Difficulty and due to a bug you cannot seemingly rest away Death's Door in the DLC... wow

 

[Serg_BlackStrider]

It's been quite some time since we last heard of Grim Face & Crew. They actually spent most of it on very pleasant vacations on 'Cataclysmic' Solasta, running through it twice - first time as Mana Painter Sorcerer and then once again as Haunted Soul Sorcerer.
Nonetheless they've also made a significant progress in Kingmaker up to the beginning of Act 3 such as:

- Capital: Claimed South Narlmarches;
- Started 'Shelyn's Chosen' quest, talked to Dragn and built his workshop;
- Moving to and out of Narlkeep on Dragn's and Shaynih'a errands was enough to hit lvl8;
- Secluded Lodge for Onslaught Gauntlets;
- Empty Skull Rock;
- Wolf's Lair;
- Mud Bowl;
- Capital for Onslaught Jambarts;
- Lonely Barrow: The most deadly fights so far;

Spoiler

- Oleg's Trading Post for Valerie duel (needed some Wand of True Strike charges) + books for Bokkeh + Onslaught Cuirass;

Spoiler

- Narlkeep to give Dragn Onslaught's pieces;
- Capital: Rank up Jubilost-Treasurer (Economy>II); 'Jaethal in Fury'; Military(40)>General requests an audience; Letter from Brevoy; Letter from Svetlana;
- Old Sycamore: Jaethal's quest and Viscount Smoulderburn;

Spoiler

- Thorn River Bank: Jaethal's quest (let Elf girl die as she wished);
- Oleg's Trading Post: Bokkeh ('An Ancient Formula') > Wererat Lair > Oleg's TP (fight mad Bokkeh with Scorching Ray scrolls) > back to the Capital to finish Jaethal's quest;

Spoiler

- Arbor Rock > Hilltop Trail (second crew member death - Octavia) > Sorrowflow;

Spoiler

- And just as we returned to the 'claimed lands' we got a 'Letter from Maegar Varn' event but had to go all the way back to the Capitan and only then we could visit Varnhold...
- So we are back in the Capital and it's 1 Rova (IX): Rank Up Valerie-Regent (Community>II); Divine(23): High Priest seeks an Advice; Linzi Has Something to discuss: 'Easier to Ask Forgiveness...'; Dragn brought Ankle Breaker; Shaynih'a brought Carefree Hunter and both invited us to visit Narlkeep to advance their quests; we also talked with Kalikke/Kanerah and sent Sweet Teeth on errand (fix Oleg's fence);
- Thorn River to get Incomplete Onslaught Armor; Narlkeep to finish Dragn's quest; Swamp Witch's Hut: Mushrooms from the Mud Bowl, Linzi's printing press, hidden Venomhodag x4, Greater Enraged Owlbears x3;

Spoiler

- Random encounter with the three fleeing trolls; 'Lost Child': Lizardfolk Village (after wasting quite some time in order to trigger Lizardfolk random encounter we were unable to get it so decided to abandon those attempts in the end);

Spoiler

- Back to the Capital to finish 'Lost Child'; Rank Up Tristian-Councilor (Loyalty>II); Rank Up Harrim-High Priest (Divine>II);
- Made a visit to Varnhold to pick The Heart of Ira necklace and talk to Maegar Varn;
- Went to the Lake Silverstep Village; Cleared the main area and hit level 9; Octavia died (again) vs Alpha Worgs' ambush in Silverstep Grove but since we have 3 Diamonds and access to Raise Dead spell at the moment this is not a big issue;
- Back to Bridge over the Gudrin River to finish it off - Crag Linnorm and two Owlbears (SW);

Spoiler

- Back to the Capital, meet Tessie the Quill, sent the Sweet Teeth on another mission (to weed the Narlmarches);
- Had to burn 9 days before the end of month so visit Verdant Chambers alone, fought Young Hydra, Ferocious Manticore, Redcaps x3 and Ferocious Wolf x2. Kitty was pretty capable to deal vs them alone but Redcaps like to reach Grim Face so need to use Fleeting Glance ability between attacks;

Spoiler

- Tenebrous Depths I-IV: third death for Octavia vs Cyclops' AoO Critical Hit, at least she managed to slow them down a moment before; double Stinking Clouds make Weary Traveler trivial;

Spoiler

- Verdant Chambers (group visit) to clean up the mess and get a nice exp boost (1440 exp) for disarming a trap in the underground area;
- Hodag Lair to 'Prove Thy Worth, Amiri!';

Spoiler

- Now it's time for some Kingdom Management: Rank Up Tristian-Councilor (Loyalty>III); 'Doomsayer Scares Townsfolk'; Bombardier's Utility Belt from Bokken; Claim the Kamelands; Willas Gunderson visit - start the Quest: The Curse of Candlemere; 'The Treasurer asks you about taxes' - Low Taxes; New Task for the Sweet Teeth - find better road to Talon Peak; Visit settlement in Kamelands to check Artisans there; Bald Stones (Dirge of Doom, Heightened Grease, Confusion, some Stinking Cloud and Amiri got her new Flaming Glaive +2);

Spoiler

- Tristian Has Some News - started Companion Quest: 'Kingdom of the Cleansed'; 'Nazrielle's Greatest Creation';
- Claimed Silverstep; got Dragonscale Plate from Dragn; spared Emerald for Mim Wobbleganger; Secret Sanctum;
- Candlemere Tower; Bald Hilltop II (Lost Sister);

Spoiler

Still short of 600 exp for level 10 and couple of days to burn out so maybe some more adventuring awaits!

to be continued...

 

[alice_ashpool]

In hindsight the story in Inevitable Excess is pretty interesting once you get to the middle. The first half is weaker imo and it picks up once you figure out what is going on. I like the Excess idea. The story is a real strength.

The combat is weak - there are only so many valakia vanguard + a few demons you really want to fight. Axiomite squads are uninteresting and... yeah... not the greatest. Inevitable Darkness, the Dragon, and a couple of others had some interest but I wish there were some high level player-style parties to fight somewhere... anywhere. But on the flip side if you consider the combat as a whole it is an oppressive and stressful run on Core, which has its own masochistic appeal.

The puzzles were not hard...but they require tracking back and forth across the map and lots and lots of clicking if you make a mistake making them a lot worse than they actually are. Endless teleporting back and forth around a map is no fun.

Bugs - Can't rest away death's door, final clock puzzle seems to have some issue for the secret area, Disillusioned achievement is bugged. Basically quite a few.

Overall it is a lot more pleasant playing through a 2nd time than the first. On normal it is fine with pre-built companions, on core it is stressful! Also props for Inevitable Darkness, baller move.

 

[alice_ashpool]

Now that I have finally "completed" Through the Ashes and Inevitable Excess to my satisfaction I have started my WotR "cannon demon playthrough".

I'm doing Half-Elf Overwhelming Mage Enchanter - now this is outclassed at the very highest edge by a wizard (esp diviner) and seeker (extra feats) - however I don't have much interest in using borderline exploits like the expanded arsenal exploit since there is no need on core, and what's a demon without charisma. For instance consider the stat-block of a succubus:
Str 13, Dex 17, Con 20, Int 18, Wis 14, Cha 27

So charisma it is. That means 10 feats only is not going to be too tragic. Half-elf because I don't mind burning a feat for that +1DC,rather than the tiefling/kitsune with +1 enchantment DC. It's pretty 6 vs half a dozen if going charisma and not going expanded arsenal exploit. Overwhelming mage provides a little bit of Spell Pen tempo, and some fun DC boosts at heavy cost.

Starting stats:
Str 16, Dex 12, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 21

Class: Overwhelming Mage Arcane Bloodline (Arcane Bond)
Race: Half-Elf Kindred Raised
Background: Leader

Feats:
1: Spell Focus Enchantment
3: Greater Spell Focus Enchantment

Spells:
1: Mage Armor, Enlarge Person
3: Reduce Person
4: Mirror Image

Leader means she can use Long Swords, specifically (corrupted) Radiance. AC is abysmal, but Enlarge Person means she can hit things with radiance from behind Camellia.

Currently Level 4, clearing some of the market before going to pick up Daeran.

 

[alice_ashpool]

Well, my mod-less game now crashes constantly. Thanks owlcat!

 

[alice_ashpool]

Ended up being something more serious - just coincided with the update. Some sort of corrupted file deep in my PC messing up all unity games and video playback. Solved by upgrading to windows 11. Sorry owlcats!

 

[alice_ashpool]

Here's the "Level 4 builds" for the who cares if its optimal so long as seelah and ember are benched party of Varia the evil as the abyss wannabe demon enchantress

Camellia - Jack of all trades, master of none.
Camellia is simultaneously an amazingly useful character and also not quite good enough at any one thing to make her exceptional, but then from a different angle everything she does is exceptional. I have dithered about Hex choice round in circles but in the end it's pretty standard.
(1: Weapon Finesse)
2: Hex - Iceplant
3: Weapon Focus: Rapier
4: Hex: Intimidating display
100% pump UMD since she needs to read Mirror Image Scrolls to be a true-pro.

Wenduag - best video game spider cat who throws axes.
I love wenduag, fighter 20 is so fun. Throwing axe + shield early on, with heavy armour. Easy.
(1: Precise shot, point-blank shot)
2: Weapon focus (throwing axe)
3: Rapid shot
4: Weapon specialisation (throwing axe)

Woljif - Assassin of note.
So many routes with this monster. Eldritch Scoundrel 20 is fine for my purposes. Going kukri mean 1-feat tempo reduction which hurts but if you want to barrage that's a way to do it. Not much more to say, you get him at level 3.

Nenio - Wierdo
Blaster nenio best nenio if im going hard in enchantment. Usual stuff.

Daeran - Wierdo x x2
Two too many early wasted feats for my liking, but he has sass. Takes so long to get going but does in the end.

 

[mlnevese]

Ended up being something more serious - just coincided with the update. Some sort of corrupted file deep in my PC messing up all unity games and video playback. Solved by upgrading to windows 11. Sorry owlcats!

Windows 11 seems to be surprisingly good for games. I've seen many reports of games being more responsive and with a higher frame rate.

 

[alice_ashpool]

She don't miss.

 

[alice_ashpool]

Rod of Mortiferous Blizzard looks pretty dank. DC is currently bugged in the text since I think owlcat patched it to DC16 but the tooltip still says DC13

 

[alice_ashpool]

I've been playing quite slowly - Varia successfully defended the tavern and has now returned to market square where she and her crew just killed the market place nabassu.

A current flaw in party composition is that we are a party of weakling nerds and so have no-one who can pass athletics checks, whoops. I could have gone athletics + persuasion with mc instead of UMD + persuasion but I want to be able to cast Heal, Mass from scrolls later. Wenduag could have not put points in Lore (Nature) and instead gone Athletics but perhaps in hindsight I should have just dragged Seelah around for longer.